Susan Puzio of Prophetic News Online Radio interviews Mishel McCumber regarding her past involvement with the false doctrine propagated by Rick Joyner’s MorningStar Ministries.
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.” (Eph. 5:11)
By Mishel
Susan Puzio of Prophetic News Online Radio interviews Mishel McCumber regarding her past involvement with the false doctrine propagated by Rick Joyner’s MorningStar Ministries.
Hi Mishel…listened to your interview last night, and would like to offer some feedback…as I guess Rick had big impact on my early walk as a believer and, while I definitely haven’t been able to relate to things coming out of prophetic movement for some time, I do still hold to some of Ricks earlier writings (such as The Harvest, Two Trees and others) as authentic and indeed relevant to Christianity today…in fact, aren’t we facing the same spiritual battle within Christendom at this time, that he foresaw and wrote of in his vision The Hordes of Hell are Marching..???
What I want to say is that, while we certainly are living in times of much deception and confusion that requires careful discernment of what we are being taught…much caution and discernment is ALSO needed when we handle and speak of leaders and ministries whom we believe are in error…because really we are dealing and touching upon ‘authority’ – EVEN if that person in position of authority has fallen from God (like king Saul), yet to speak or raise a hand against them (as David wouldn’t) is still, in essence, touching God Himself..
So, what I am saying, is that while we MUST discern…we ALSO must take extreme caution in touching the reputation of leaders – especially Christian leaders..(even if they are in error)…remember that Satan is the Accuser and his prime target are those in leadership…using Christians themselves to SPEAK against them….
While this interview relates to your own testimony and experience at Morning Star – really what I heard was, in effect, two women speaking ‘hearsay’ (a friend of a friend saw this and that), about a world renown Christian leader, who, as well as needing much prayer, must also give account for himself on judgment day..
I would say it is one thing to expose wrong teaching in the church, and still quite another to name names, and touch the reputation of those who are in positions of leadership…I think this is a subject not widely understood by believers, but in the book of Jude we have an incident mentioned where even the mightiest archangel in heaven dared not to verbally confront or personally attack the devil himself…whereas when Miriam spoke against Moses in secret, God immediately held her to extreme accountability..
I am not saying this to bring condemnation, but that we can learn not to fall into trap of the enemy…
God Bless
David.
David L, I wanted to briefly address one more thing. You said:
“…we ALSO must take extreme caution in touching the reputation of leaders – especially Christian leaders..(even if they are in error)…remember that Satan is the Accuser and his prime target are those in leadership…using Christians themselves to SPEAK against them…”
I agree that those in leadership are “prime targets” of Satan, and why? Because he knows that people listen to what they teach and preach…looking to them as spokesmen for God Himself. While I’m sure that Satan’s full intent is to destroy the very lives of those who steadfastly live holy lives before God and his people…and who preach and teach the rightly divided Word of God, when it comes to those he can persuade to stray from the will and purpose of God, those he can lure into sin, error, deception, heresy, and outright apostasy…he’d rather to keep those alive so that can teach and preach the same to God’s people and lead them down the same path of destruction.
The scriptures certainly warn against gossiping and speaking wrongly of not only those in positions of leadership, but of any believer…when we have evidence/proof that people are walking in sin and deception…and bringing that sin and deception into the church, we have explicit directives to expose not only their sin…but to expose THEM…to MARK THEM…and to AVOID THEM.
What you describe as “heresay”…isn’t heresay at all. Mishel gave first hand accounts of her personnel experiences of her time with both Joyner and Swaggart. Referring to friends who have had similar experiences isn’t “heresay”…but instead, she has provided witnesses to their wrongdoing…just as the scriptures direct us all to do in such situations.
DavidL,
We are in the last days of deception and apostasy. Those who will not be deceived will stay on track with the whole Word of our Lord God Almighty which is already provided to us as EVERYTHING we need for life and godliness, These are the elect, not those who go around making up their own religion and their own way to God (as they see him, whatever works for them).
Within this Word of God, we are told what to do about false teachers– Avoid them! EXPOSE them!!! They need to be exposed so perhaps some unsuspecting person may be saved from deception. Or by some slim chance, a false teacher may see his error, lay down his pride, and repent.
David L, You wrote:
“I would say it is one thing to expose wrong teaching in the church, and still quite another to name names, and touch the reputation of those who are in positions of leadership…”
With all respect, I couldn’t care less what “you would say”…and complete respect and trust for what the scriptures say. What you’ve had to say on the subject simply isn’t in agreement with scripture.
“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” – Romans 16:17
As you can see from this verse (and it’s just one of several that are in agreement on the same issue)…we are to MARK THEM, and that is exactly what Mischel and many others have done in regard to Joyner, Swaggart , and other ministers who are in error, deception, and/or walking in sin.
Romans 16:17 doesn’t say to mark or expose their WRONG TEACHING…it says to MARK THEM…that is, the PERSON responsible for those teaching…the person causing the offence and division. Furthermore, your stance that those in “positions of leadership” should be sheltered and protected from scrutiny and correction is completely errant. In fact, the scriptures teach those in leadership are to be held to a HIGHER…not LOWER degree of scrutiny and responsibility.
In reading the entirety of your comments, you seem to be very sincere in your concern…but unfortunately, I believe that there is an abundance of scriptural support for the fact that you’re sincerely wrong. This errant concept that those in ministry are somehow “above scrutiny” is not only errant and in no way supported by scripture… it is straight out of the pit of hell.
As to your attempt to justify/verify your position by referring to Jude…as well as the incident involving Moses/Miriam…you’ve taken both completely out of context as to how they apply to the topic at hand. I wish I had the time to explain in detail, but unfortunately, I don’t.
I have no idea if you’ll find my response and/or care to respond if you do…but I would encourage you and anyone else who might come upon our exchange to dig deep into the scriptures and take in the whole counsel of the Word regarding this matter.
David, you come across as a good man, a sincere believer, with sincere concerns…but I have to say once again, the scriptures simply do not support your position.
Preach it, John!
David – On the issue of touch not the Lords anointed – This scripture is so used by the false apostles and prophets to silence those who would expose them. There are many who set themselves up as having authority from God and using signs and wonders to authenticate their position. There are many in the body of Christ who are deceived about such so called leaders and will swallow every kind of junk and twisted scripture they come up with. I want to show you how Jesus dealt with them and how he exposed them in front of the multitudes and disciples who were with him, take a look at these scriptures – Mathew 15 verses 1 – 14. Notice that he refers to the pharisee’s as blind guides? but you should also pay attention to verses 13 and 14 – But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone:they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. God did not put them in place of authority and he openly rebuked such people who outwardly appear righteous but are like wolves in sheep clothing. Rick joyner is a member of the freemasons, the knights of malta are part of the freemasons which is realy worship of satan. Are you going to take heed with what he says despite this? If satan came knocking on the front door of your house and introduced himself as who he realy is would you listen to him and act on what he says? even if it sounded plausible and perhaps quoting scripture although it appeared to be truth???. I have a friend who stated that there is something wrong and dark about rick joyner, he said he didn’t know what it was but did not like the guy. We told him he was in the knights of malta and he then understood why he sensed or felt something about rick and later went on to rick joyners web site. I have not looked at any of the stuff rick puts out online but apparently there was a photograph of him wearing all the masonic regalia and a blog explaining why the lord had him join the knights of malta, and to my dismay our friend accepted the excuses and reasoned in his own mind that rick is doing the lords work. He ignored what the holy spirit was showing him and instead took notice of someone who is realy one of satans tools. I find that so many are doing the same, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrine of devils. Just about anyone who is clever and creative enough can claim they have recieved visions and dreams and prophetic messages from the lord and can easily decieve the nieve and gullible, i was one of them who was sucked in to what became a cult and put far too much trust in a man other than God, please do not do the same.
Good reply Mark. You are correct. The dominionist have a 7 mountain mandate. The Mason’s have a 7 pillar mandate.. They are the same mandate . They are the same people.. They believe in a universal god. Not the God of the bible. Remember, the Harlot sits on 7 mountains. These groups lead to Rome. So you have a 7 mountain mandate and Rome. These are the same also. Harlot.
The above comment i made should read – in my opinion he is either a willing or deceived tool for satan.
I was at jam in early 90s…it was all you speak of…exactly.
Thanks for sharing..
Jan