The following video was brought to my attention by a former Jimmy Swaggart Ministries supporter. This originally appeared on CNN and was a special piece done by Investigative Reporter Art Harris. I was personally not aware until viewing this, that any video of Debra Murphrey even existed. If there was truly evidence of repentance in this man’s life I would not be bringing this up again. However, you must consider that it was only a few short years after his tearful confession that he was once again caught in the company of a prostitute. This time, instead of confessing to his church, he told them it was flat-out none of their business! Does that sound like a repentant man to you? Also, think about this for a moment. Do you really believe that the only two times this man solicited the company of a prostitute he was unfortunate enough to be caught? What are the odds? He must be the most unluckiest man in the world!
While I am not aware of any recent sexual indiscretions, I am aware of the sexual indiscretions of one of the members of his pastoral staff; indiscretions which I might add that have been completely unchecked by the Swaggarts. I am also aware of the ongoing sexual indiscretions of one of the members of the worship team.
Having worked for this ministry, I can honestly say that what I witnessed there was far worse than any corporate or secular environment I had ever been a part of. Swaggart claims to have changed after receiving “The Message of the Cross” in 1997, however I think the way Jimmy Swaggart dealt with the printing scandal by sweeping it under the rug and firing all who knew about it speaks volumes about how “changed” this man really is.
You can view the video HERE: Jimmy Swaggart: Straying and Preying from Art Harris Investigates on Vimeo.
I dont like j swaggart..I get the feeling he thinks he is above Everybody..Money does that 2 him I guess..His wife NEVER Ever smiles..So much 4 her Joy of The Lord..She thinks she is above Everybody too..They run a Huge $ money making business..I dont think people should continue 2 beat him up 4 the past..His prostitute days were long ago I hope..He can never shake that scandal it seems..4 all his self proclaimed brilliance he was not very smart covering his tracks with the ladies, lies, money scams on and on..They ALL are quite the picture perfect family..francess swaggart makes sure of that.They put on a fantastic phony front..
The Lord says wide is the road that leads to destruction and many go down it ..no wonder when there are wolves in sheeps clothing like Braggart I mean swaggert If he Truly believed in God he wouldn’t do the things he does…he is going to be very sorry one day For God is not mocked what a man sows he shall also reap……
This man needs to own up and step down.
His son Donnie is NO better, scamming others,
and getting away with it on his father’s coat tails.
STOP supporting these self-indulgent rip offs;
and send your money to the hungry and homeless!
Take them for what they are – NOTHING more than a family of scamming salesmen! They are ALL money grubbers and money lovers; living extravagant lifestyles at the expense of others. Is that the Word of God? It cracks us up how they can come to instant tears when they beg for people to be saved in their name and grub for more and more money to buy luxury cars, $10million jets and $mega-million homes. They are very good at it, and have bamboozled millions of people. The generations of Donny, and now Gabe will continue until they are FINALLY held accountable for their financial smoke and mirrors, and how they treat employees.
It is especially sad to read how they frequently fire employees, (without ANY benefits) for questioning their fraudulent behavior. It’s also amazing that our government allows them to get away with their scam, while costing the rest of us money to pay their taxes. We have NO problem with a “company” making money, but like other companies, pay your fair share of taxes; and report where your profits are being spent. Swaggart’s profits are NOT going to the needy or hungry as Jimmy, Donnie and Gabe claim when they beg for money. It is being funneled into the general fund for their use and abuse to support their extravagant lifestyles! Wake up! Get your Senators and Representatives to force them to account for where your money actually goes! You will be WILDLY surprised to learn the real truth; versus their lies. Good luck on Judgement Day…
Grievious wolves (in Bible times were ‘packs of Albino’ whiter than the WHITE wool coats of the herd of sheep, blending in, coming only after ‘evening time’ and only during nights with the sheep, only THE NEXT DAY could a sheep herder discover THEY ARE as ‘FAT’ as the fatest of the entire sheep herd, and ‘grievious’ off another lamb WITHIN THE FOLD). Paul was emphasising IN APPLICATION to being ‘grievious’ (AS WEIGHTY, especially in doctrinal claims by humans IN ATTEMPTING to dazzle the ‘sheepfold of men’ WITH THEIR BRIGHTNESS AND ‘WHITER’ THAN OTHERS from sin CLAIMANTS of the great ‘exchange’ of JESUS and His cross WITH men). Contrary to the Swaggart’s, none, including THEM got His righteousness and HE did not take OUR OWN PERSONAL SINS (even Swaggart’s public outward for the world to see SINS) upon His cross. THIS CATHOLIC doctrine (including French Catholics of the South) makes JESUS a ‘sinner’ and WE THE RIGHTEOUS IN HIS PLACE before God ? Instead, the Bible states plainly “HE became sin on our behalf, by taking upon Himself THE VERY ‘LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH OF ADAM’ from Mary, from Adam’s Eve (as the ONE SEED OF THE WOMAN) and IN THE DAYS OF HIS FLESH, He did only the WILL of His Father in Heaven, as completely EMPTIED (Phil. 2 ‘kenosis’) AND AS THE LAST ADAM ended the reign of Adam IN CHRIST’S DEATH, BURIEL, RESURRECTION ! The only ‘exchange’ was by Jesus WITH Azazel IN ‘hades’ IN WHICH HIS ‘ADAMIC SOUL BODY’ was ‘ransom paid’ TO THIS PRINCE OF DEMONS for this tiny ‘footstool’ of our Lord’s and HIS FATHER OVER HIM, and the precious HOLY SPIRIT of ‘conviction’ AND ‘promise’ NOW HERE (Who raised Jesus FROM THE DEAD and from ‘hades’ EVENTUALLY “all the way” TO HIS FATHER’S RIGHT HAND ‘hereafter’ and ‘forevermore’). Swaggart’s are ‘downloaded’ by an ‘angel from heaven’ WITH ANOTHER GOSPEL, different jesus, by a lying spirit (FALSELY CLAIMING TO BE THE HOLY SPIRIT into their ‘brains”). Their ‘minds’ CANNOT be ‘renewed’ (BEING THEIR INNER MAN OF THE SOUL has rejected MORE THAN TWICE the ‘conviction’ power of the real Person of the Holy Spirit HIMSELF). John said ‘there IS a sin, no longer, should we be praying for’ SUCH AS THEIRS, and like Sapphira and her husband, IT LEADS TO DEATH, as sure as THE HOLY SPIRIT “is God” here on this tiny FOOTSTOOL (soon to have it’s entire heaven IN mountain-melting FIRE ending for any and all ‘soul LIFE’ on this tiny Planet of DELUSION and under Vengence OF OUR GOD since THE ETERNAL DEPARTURE from here OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth SEATED at His (our) FATHER’S Right Hand FOREVERMORE, ‘hereafter’ TO STAND in declarations of final judgments COMING FROM HIS FATHER AT THE SEAT ABOVE HIM OF “ALL POWER” in an ever-expanding MATERIAL entire Universe OVER ALL PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE ‘FREE-WILL’ creatures of Creator GOD’S PURPOSE of having a never ending MATERIAL Universe (with a backdrop of ‘blackness of darkness’ SWALLOWING UP MORE FOOTSTOOLS eternally AS GOD decrees AND IN BEING NEVER ‘unfair’ NOR ‘unjust’ AS TO HIS CREATED CREATURES even future and not yet into existence, while REMAINING SEATED at the Throne of “ALL POWER” ALSO FOREVERMORE
First of all I want to say thank you for helping expose Jimmy Swaggart Ministries through your testimonies and the testimonies of other people’s experiences as well.I first came upon your site about 1 or 2 days ago and the interview you had with Mike Siegel was truly interesting and also your interview with Abbey,eye opening stuff.Thank you again.
What I want to ask is,do you plan to take your experiences while working at JSM to the media?I know you’ve already tried taking it to The Advocate and that they’re in cahoots with JSM,but surely some other news source would be interested.How about the Times-Picayune?(I think they’re still around…not too sure).Or how about WBRZ or WAFB?The things you’ve witnessed are certainly news worthy in my opinion.They’d have to be interested,right?
LOVIN THE SWAGGARTS AND LOREN…YOU GO PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED ALL OVER THE WORLD!!!!
Well love the word of God and check it against what you hear the Swaggart’s and Loren say, I love them too in the realm of being grieves by the bondage they are suffocating in but I hate their divisive ways and the damage they are doing to the kingdom of God.
I read Theresa’s comment and I respect what she said …it is extremely sincere. My comments are too. I see things a little different. This thing is not about anyone except the Lord Jesus(God)…Father and Holy Ghost. I am continuing to pray for Jimmy Swaggart. It is difficult to believe men like Dave Smith,Loren Larson, and Mr.&Mrs. Bob Cornell are joined in such a corrupt outfit as many here believe jsm .org is.even now. We will pray as to whether or not to give to them again. We love them though. I like the way Jimmy Swaggart writes. I like him much more than I like Frances .
I’m glad you read Theresa’s comments. I agree that she is sincere, and though we may disagree on some things, I believe that you are sincere as well.
As for those you mentioned whom you’re having a difficult time believing they would joined to a corrupt ministry, I really have no answers for you and can only offer that even the best and most well intended people can sometimes be deceived, especially when the deception has come via people that they have known, loved, and trusted in for years.
I want to clarify a couple of things, Doris. I truly don’t hate the Swaggarts, though they anger me. I’m sure you’re familiar with the scripture that says to “be angry…but sin not”. I try my best to obey that scripture, though I readily admit that I’ve failed many times. There are times and situation in which we should be angry…angry with sin, angry with deception, angry with the harm that it causes, especially to the innocent who are led astray. I’ve never denied that Jimmy Swaggart was called of the Lord. I’ve never denied that at least in former years, that God’s anointing was on him. But at some point along the way, and only the Lord and Jimmy know when…he allowed sin to overtake his life. As far as the sexual sin that was exposed in the ‘80s, I absolutely belief that if he has truly repented, God has certainly forgiven him and that we should as well. What hasn’t seemed to be clear to you as to my position, is that like many, I saw no indications that there was a true repentance on his part. And I don’t base this by attempting to “know his heart”…something I clearly can’t do. I’m basing it on the fact that I don’t see the change in his life that would indicate repentance, as well as a mountain of evidence that has been testified to by many, many people who know him personally…that shows that he continues to be wayward. If you haven’t read all of the responses from earlier in this articles, I wrote of an indirect connection that I have to the Swaggarts and my experience that I had several years ago. I think the date is May 3rd (or 4th), 2014. If you read my comments there, perhaps you will gain a further insight into my perceptions of Swaggart. From what I know first-hand, and from that “mountain of evidence” against Swaggart that I keep referring to…I have no reason to believe that anything has changed in his life. But believe it or not…it has never been my mission to change your mind about the subject. What I HAVE hoped to see is that anyone who visits this site and reads the articles will simply do as Theresa has done. Research it yourself. Investigate. Search the scriptures. Pray and seek the guidance and discernment of the Holy Spirit. Doris, this is what I hope you will do, and it seems like you’re surely headed in that direction. If in the end, if decide that you don’t agree with me and the others who believe that the Swaggarts are not walking in holiness and truth…then so be it! I will pray for you, but I will have no cross words to say toward you. I realize that I’ve said two times that I have nothing more to say to you…but obviously, I keep coming back. And I don’t do so merely to argue with you and prove a point, but because I honestly do care for you…and I would hope that you feel the same toward me. How about we start all over, and find some common ground? Assuming we both want nothing less than the truth for our lives and for others, isn’t that the most important thing that two people could have in common? As you well know, Jesus is The Truth…and we have Him in common, so surely we can work out our differences…
Yes that would be good and would please the Lord.
Bless you.
If you don’t like Jimmy Swaggart you don’t like KING DAVID. As for Frances …she is trying to protect him from himself. Ha! They sure are doing more than me.
There’s your strong man of God …walking righteously and holy, just like he preaches…but needing his wife to protect him from himself. Pathetic.
I love jsm.org and they have helped alot of people. I do not try to get the speck out of others eyes …
This is all old news. Besides apparently everyone here has fallen away also becouse seems like everyone has forgotten,
Be not judged least ur judged
Gods word does not come back void meaning he can live like devil but pple can still be touched n saved under his ministry.
He that hath not sinned cast first stone
Anyone can backslide n fall but can come back to.christ.
There are very very few thngs i dont believe like them but as far as preachn it right and biblical teaching is better than most others who doent even mention the blood and have gotten liberal.
Im not living for man nor swaggart ,but the songs n teachings or msgs uplift me n encourage me.
To be honest with u, he still preachong the same old time holimess mesage from way back however as standard goes, hes slipped a little. I see women in jewerly pants makeup and hair cut . Other than that thats btwn them n god. You cant blast one preacher without blasting all of them including majority of tbn ministries n preachers. To single out a man whom u judge shows ur true fruits. Jesus if here today would rebuke all od you. Work out your own salvation.
Yes,all have sinned.Even Christians.However,while God may or may not have forgiven him,and while I have forgiven him,it is not right to use a double standard.
It is not right,for example,if one of us should judge the Swaggarts,for them to come down on us,yet let the Swaggarts judge us,and Swaggarts followers give him a free pass.
I’m not saying Swaggart has or has not been forgiven.Only God knows his heart,I don’t claim to.But,I am saying the Swaggarts (all of them) are judging us when they tell us we are not Christians if we listen to secular music,or go to a sports game,or are Catholic,Baptist,Lutheren,or if we don’t agree with them.They say we are not Christians if we do these things,which is judging on their part.
Just as the Bible says we are not to judge,that same bible verse applies to the Swaggarts too.They are not our judge.We are not their Judge.God is the judge of all of us.But the Swaggarts ignore that bible verse,the Swaggarts judge us,and his followers give him a free pass on it.
A question should be asked:If Jim Bakker judged us,would Swaggarts follwers give him a free pass on it? Proablay not.Swaggarts followers would no doubt come down hard on Jim Bakker.But if any of the Swaggarts judged us,his follwers givehim a free pass.
Something to consider.
Actually the Bible does tell us to judge righteous judgement according to the Word of God.John 7:17…However I leave the Swaggart family to the LORD. Jimmy Swaggart seems real to me …not perfect but real.
I love the music and it is anointed of the Holy Spirit …They are right about alot not perfect but right about the majority of the things they preach and discuss.
While I agree on the part of leaving the Swaggart’s to the Lord,the bible also says “Judge not lest ye be judged”.Pure & simple.
The Swaggarts have no call to tell us Country music fans we are not Christians because we love country Music,or because someone is Catholic,Baptist,,etc. It is not the Swaggart’s place to say we are not Christians.It is God’s place.The judge not verse applies to both,the Swaggart’s and us.
While you have the right to your opnion Doris,and I respect that,it sounds like,based on what your saying that you are giving the Swaggat’s a free pass.If I’m wrong,I apologize for misunderstanding what you ment.
Also Doris,while you have every right to watch them & support them if you choose to,and I respect that too,I can not,in good spirits support someone playing god,which is what the Swaggart’s are doing,in my opnion.
Oh no you’re not wrong I am giving them a free pass.
Swaggarts are alway saying are faith in the cross . My faith is in Jesus Christ not a piece of wood
And my salvation come from the shed blood of Jesus Christ not that cross and my faith does not
Come from or in the cross its in Jesus Christ the author and finisher of my faith.
All the ministers and evangelists with the jsm.org always go to extra lengths to explain they ARE NOT SPEAKING OF A WOODEN BEAM.
Doris,
The “modern church,” the historical church from the time of Christ until today, and the apostles, including Paul has understood the gospel, the atonement, the New Covenant since the New Testament scriptures were written! The Holy Spirit revealed all that there is to reveal to the church concerning doctrine from the time the Canon was closed! The scriptures tell us this! So, Jimmy does NOT have a “new revelation” from God.
Every born-again believer KNOWS that Swaggart is NOT referring to “a wooden beam” when he speaks of the cross! The ministers at JSM must think everyone else is as stupid as they are! The church does NOT reject the cross!! We reject Jimmy’s perverted “message of the cross.”
You would benefit from the information presented at this website: www. christiananswerman .com. The blogger, Pastor Mark does a great job of describing Swaggart’s doctrine and refuting it with the Word of God! There is also a very interesting debate with a Swaggart follower that is very interesting. Please check it out!
I do not see the people as jsm as JIMMY Swaggart. However, he was an Assemblies of God poster boy. Assemblies of God make me sick. They are religious yet most lost.
I’m sure you do realize I was replying to John ..btw he makes me sick also. John said the Swaggarts teach that it is a wooden beam. I didn’t address the reply to you.
I know what the Word teaches …I do not need you or any of your online pastor’s to tell me.
Thanks anyway.
I’m sure you and John rejoice over the recent sickness of Frances and that she has almost died. You are typical church PEOPLE hahaha.
Doris,
Of course not! I don’t wish ill for anybody! Where did U get the information that she “almost died?”
You don’t get it, do you? I have no hatred for these people! My criticism is solely based on their attitude and damage they are doing to the church and the gospel! It’s never been personal!
And you could definitely benefit from “christiananswerman.” I just discovered his website! I have been looking for someone to publish an analysis of the “message of the cross” teaching using Swaggarts own words, written or spoken! His Biblical analysis is superb! If you can support him after reading his blog, there’s no doubt you will follow a charismatic leader more than the Word of God!
T.Heim,
Number 1: I do not think 80 yr. old Jimmy Swaggart is charismatic(your word). I do like the Swaggarts.
Number 2: Frances fell ill on FF and she had infections in her knees from prior knee replacement surgery(I know you believe that was a lie that she had double knee replacement). She has been hospitalized for 2 weeks maybe a little longer, closer to 3.
Number 3: I do not need anyone , not you, not John and for that matter not the Swaggarts to tell me what the Bible teaches. I was raised to know the Bible teaches. When I was born again, I studied the Word for myself.
My husband and I have been part of 2 Baptist churches since we were saved in 1991.
I know the Baptist are stiff-necked and they are wrong about ALOT. You are deluded if you believe(which I think you do) that anyone knows it ALL when it comes to the Bible.
I perceive you and John as people that like to go to church and really have no personal relationship with the Lord Jesus. Church members but possibly lost…constantly critical and always analyzing people that you meet in church. It is sickening. You are suppose to love one another. Salvation is the gift of God. Jesus is the unspeakable gift. All we do is receive the gift by faith in Jesus. If you have every detail right and do not have Jesus …all other aspects of “Christianity” are null and void.
Why do you continue to try to prove Jimmy Swaggart wrong ? Why not improve your own relationship with the Lord, if you have time for a relationship after all you critical thinking about the Swaggarts.
Just exactly what to you believe about salvation and a personal walk with Jesus is suppose to be like?
The purpose for this website is to discuss JSM and expose their false teaching and damaging behavior to the church and the gospel! That’s what goes on here! If you object, why do you bother to keep throwing in your two cents? Just move along then!
T.Heim,
Not that it is any of your business, but I hadn’t been on this website at all until I got an email from a comment with the name B.K. I answered it and then I received an email from a comment you made. In all you self proclaimed wisdom and knowledge of the scriptures you replied to the comment I made to B. K. .
I listened to the person you promoted on this website…theBibleanswerman. What a joke.
You are part of the Rick Warren crowd aren’t you? You will not take a DIRECT stand about the judgement of GOD which the sanctioning of Homosexual marriage is bringing upon these United States. I can see why you like a wavering reed such as he. A double minded man is unstable in ALL his WAYS.
I will comment about whatever on this website …WHEN EVER I please .
It is none of your business.
I would hate to be a person that loves to see terrible things happen to others. You hate the Swaggarts…..ALL of them. I’m sure you think it’s God’s judgement on them that Frances is ill.
Possibly will die. You and John and rejoice like the demons you act like.
T.Heim,
The bibleanswerman is walking the fine line in order to be non controversial. He is not dogmatic about losing one’s salvation.
This is my opinion ….If something appeals to the flesh it is NOT of GOD ….Jesus. This guy will not even say Catholics are wrong in confessing to an earthly priest.
This tells me that I am right about you.
What R U talking about??
The site I referred you to is “christiananswerman!”
OKAY…I googled the CHRISTIANANSWERMAN.com So I guess this dude is going to tell us who is a Christian and who isn’t? I thought he was answering questions about the Bible NOT JUDGING ….like you do.
Obviously JOHN you just want people to believe your lies. If one listens to jsm.org for any length of time the hearer will hear……the message of the Cross is not speaking of a wooden beam but the FINISHED work Jesus did thereon.
If ur thinking majority of tv preachers real n blameless without sin and not pertain to some satanic manner then ur in denial and need seek out truth n live from bible. I dont send noone money. But can i get encourage fed uplifted? Absolutely! What preacher on tv hasnt been in scandle, and fake tears, and say send money for god to heal or bless u? As far as i know swaggarts dont do that n i feel like tears real. Annointed? Id have say one that in that ministry os grandson gabriel. I was prayed over when lil that i would experience n feel gos presence n feel the spirit. Although my path was rocky thru years i can feel of its there or not. Seriously if judging n blasting hes the least one to be concerned about. Haggae under demonic during alot services, benny hinn demonic spirit even does demonic hand sign before knockn them out. Been raised old way holiness and believe me, when god lays u out its not from man hands on pressure points. When out in spirit god reveals n give visions. U wont get hurt or injured if fall becouse god will not injure u.
A buddist can believe budda and still get healing. How? Faith! Positive thinking positive mind. Childlike faith n belief n you can be healed. Shees catholics not only ones whos dirty today alot stuff seeping n taking over in holiness and all pentcoatal religions. i feel we are in the falling away. Even catholic as well all demoniations have lost numbers esp kids in past few years
Honestly? Who are these people? If we see, if we know their fruit of spirit which is, Not the fruit of the spirit, there teaching a doctrine that is twisted, it is much like witchcraft. They are having these night club posters. Let me tell you what they’re not, They are Not Christians. (Period). People at this ministry young people especially seem to have some hip hop spirit in them which is NOT the Holy Spirit. If you have a twitter see all of Gabes’ friends. It’s really shocking that some of them have that hip hop worldly spirit. Some of them talk, worldly. The young girls that go to FCA are posting pictures of themselves half naked, flirting around,posting twitter jokes,
worldly songs etc… It shocked me! They have that hip hop rap worldly spirit in them. No suprise, that is what the buisness in this ministry is. For ex, go over to Youtube, type in Sonlifebroadcasting Network, Hit the SBN videos, click the video that says international youth crossfire 2013 Where Gabe swaggart is talking about going to expirience what they call there spirit… Notice the little boy in the red shirt sticking his point finger up and spinning around, Listen the the Christina aguilera song called circles. There is a demonic hip hop worldly spirit that is controlling these young people. Yes some are sincere but soon enough if they keep on with these people they’re going to be indoctrinated by the certain stuff they’re teaching. It’s witchcraft.
god will forgive but people want if you are with out sins cast the first stone
It’s not about forgiveness, of course God will forgive. But what about fruit of repentance? Jimmy would not step down and seek true restoration. So what was the result? Three years later he was caught again in California with a prostitute. That was 1991 and we really have no idea how long it went on after that. But again even after 2 public embarrassments would God still forgive but he still is not really showing a repentant spirit. He just says he didn’t have the revelation of the cross and the Assemblies of God didn’t know how to teach him to live. He is still blaming everyone but him. Only The Lord knows the heart.
At least I see that John jumps everybody that wants to extend mercy to Swaggart
Doris, overlooking unrepentant sin and false doctrine is NOT showing mercy! It is enabling behavior! The enablers are the only reason that Swaggart is still in ministry! This is sick, codependent behavior. No different than how those around us enabled our addiction. When the enabling stops, the addict is finally able to stop. Pay attention to how the pastors around Swaggart, and his family members stroke his ego…calling him an apostle, God’s chosen leader, 2nd to the Apostle Paul. They constantly make grandiose statements about themselves and SBN. Donnie introduced Gabriel as “America’s Youth Pastor”. Frances claims her husband is a theologian (even though he doesn’t have a degree), they constantly push the Exp.study Bible as the best tool, most accurate resource, fastest selling Bible in the world, and on and on.
Do you not ever hear any of this?? Why are these things ok with you?
When I got saved I was instantly delivered of all my addictions including cigarettes. No help groups,counselling,etc.
So are you saying the only reason the men mentioned are there with the swaggarts is because they are employees of the swaggarts and are just concerned with their salaries. It seems to me that Loren Larson isn’t a stroker of the ego, of Jimmy. Infact, it seems to me that the Larsons(Mr.&Mrs.,Grace,Joseph, their younger sister, Martha Borg(aunt, mothers sister) are all of the Larson family). IF they suddently are not there anymore it would be difficult to make an excuse for that move.That is to say if Big Moma got mad and fired them.
I don’t know what the case is with all those men that seem to be good men. Jim Nations, Carl Smith,
Gabrielle may be America’s youth pastor, if not him,WHO? It’s for sure I can’t think of another youth pastor that draws as many youth. The WORD of God says that God uses the weak and foolish things of this world to confound the wise. I do not watch as much as you, but I can’t help but like to listen to the a Study in the Word discussions and Message of the Cross. It’s difficult to believe they are all in a cabal of corruption to stoke Jimmy’s ego.
It’s crazy. More later
Seriously? Gabriel MAY BE America’s Youth pastor? If not, who? You can’t think of another pastor that draws so many young people??
Do you claim to know every ministry in every state in the US and abroad? How can you make such statements?? I can name 10 local ministries that draw more than JSM!!! It’s ignorant, even dishonest to make claims that cannot be substanciated.
I did not say that I KNOW the reason why the Larson’s and others are involved in the ministry. I merely stated that livelyhood is a strong motivating factor. Did you read my comments regarding my experience with a former pastor?
You claim that you were instantly healed of your addictions. I don’t know you, so I’ll take your word for it. However, there are many who testify to the same thing and they’re not believers. Your story is rare. Not everyone who abuse drugs or alcohol are addicts. JSM teaches that it is IMPOSSIBLE for ANYONE to overcome addiction without faith in “the cross!” That is flat-out false!! Complete Nonsense! I know of hundreds who have gotten sober who are not believers! If I know about hundreds, clearly there are thousands or millions who are clean and sober through many treatment options.
Please don’t make the mistake of isolating yourself from reality, allowing others to define reality for you. Loren Larson is one of the LOUDEST and most consistent Swaggart cheerleaders!! So, your statements make no sense to me.
Have you had personal contact with that ministry? Do you know anything about their private lives? Do you read any other contemporary Christian authors? I would encourage you to do so! The people at JSM do a great job at isolating themselves, creating/defining their own reality, believing/promoting their own propaganda. Don’t buy into their claims about other churches. Familiarize yourself with the total body of Christ! The Swaggart’s are DEAD WRONG about the “modern church!” They can’t even define/describe it accurately. Don’t waste your money!
Who do you think would be a better youth pastor? Why do you blame Gabrielle with what Jimmy Swaggart has done. I just do not understand your anger. I guess I do not know these people like you do. I will write more tomorrow. Haven’t had time except a glance at email today.
I will reply.
Doris,
I don’t hold Gabriel responsible for what Jimmy did. He is responsible, however, for being willing to minister under a man as untrustworthy and un-Biblical as his grandfather and father. He is accountable for what he preaches, which is a perverted gospel.
To ask me who I think is a “better youth pastor” reveals that you don’t get it! How do you define “better?” Gabriel’s teaching is so misguided that I don’t know where to begin! His view of reality is so skewed that, as young people mature and become educated, they will realize that they’ve been lied to!
Look, as John said in an earlier post, there is a mountain of examples of the problems with this ministry. We have outlined many, but it’s way too time consuming to reveal it all, and I doubt you would accept it because you appear to be of the same mindset as the Swaggart’s. You don’t seem to hear what I hear. I hope you will take a closer look at what is being said all over that network. Have a healthy skepticism concerning their “truth claims.” Find a church in your area and get involved there! Begin to question what you believe and why you believe, or don’t believe certain things. One’s faith should be examined regularly. Have a healthy, questioning mind and a teachable spirit.
Paul & Jan Crouch started TBN over 30 years ago and built that network into the largest Christian network in the world. It’s worth over a billion dollars! Joni and Marcus Lamb started and built the Daystar network. Inspiration network was built by David Cerullo. All these folks claim that God told them to start these networks, and they cite their success as “proof” that God ordained it. Now Jimmy Swaggart comes along and says that God told him to build his own network because the “true” gospel wasn’t being preached! And he cites the success of SBN as “proof” that God did tell him to do it. So, obviously “God” must be wrong somewhere. Jimmy claims that it’s impossible to build a network such as SBN without God ordaining it…YET he claims that these other networks aren’t of God. So how is that possible? Do you see the lack of logic? Think about it! Think!
I know that Paul and Jan Crouch were so far beyond the zone of reality it is pitiful. Kenneth and Gloria Copeland as well. I do not know the Daystar people etc. I do not claim to think the Swaggarts are beyond reproach. I have always known that the Cross is central and the Resurrection depended upon the sacrifice of Jesus upon the Cross of Calvary.By always I mean I was raise by born again parents. My Jewish uncle was saved in prison as a 16 yr old and went directly from prison to pulpit and was an Evang. for 69 yrs. His name was Dr. Eddie Liberman he lived and died and 96 ish in Greenville,S.C. I guess I am forgiven much and therefore I have much love toward the scoundrels. ha. Kenneth copeland being involved with the Pope etc was a SHOCK and is spiritual adultery at it’s worst. I’ll write more tomorrow.
I probably do not get IT.
Doris,
I apologize for that remark! I feel frustrated that I don’t seem to be able to articulate my point of view with enough clarity. I try to persuade folks to see things my way. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me on everything, and I don’t believe I’m right about everything! I think it’s remarkable how far apart Christians can be concerning the scriptures and doctrinal beliefs. You have a long list of people, who primarily appear on television, with whom you disagree, yet they have many supporters. There is a myriad of books, magazines, commentaries, theologians and pastors that vary greatly on church doctrine. However, what you see on Christian television is a very small slice of the whole body of Christ!! In light of this, I don’t see how any honest person can be confident that they are right about everything!! People who do think that (like Swaggart et.al ) are dangerous, because their minds are closed. It’s an ignorant position to have. I have no confidence in people like that.
Take care, Doris!
Me either…I have confidence in very few… I have seen alot of misconduct since I got saved. Most has to do with money and the church houses. Thank you ….
My husband was instantly delivered of pot and alcohol also. Yes it is rare. The last thing to go with me was cigarettes.. I began to gag one day WHILE smoking a cigarette and I said ..I am being delivered from cigarettes . I was and have been for 22 yrs. Please do not doubt my testimony.
Loren Larson is from the FlatHead Valley of Montana and no I haven’t been in contact with any of the ministry at jsm.org …Have you?
I feel sorry for Gabe..I feel they are pushing him to be like another Jimmy “Crusades” Swaggart.
I expect something bad to happen with he and his wife. I pray not. I pray for them.
Thanks for your concern. God Bless you.
Doris,
T. wrote the following to you:
“Doris, overlooking unrepentant sin and false doctrine is NOT showing mercy! It is enabling behavior!”.
You chose not to respond to this statement at all…and I’m wondering two things: (1) why?…as it is very important, and (2) do you agree with her statement?
At the end of her comment, she asked you the following questions:
“Do you not ever hear any of this?? Why are these things ok with you?”
Again, you failed to address her questions.
You have a habit of not addressing important things that people say to you and/or not answering questions that are posed to you. With all due respect…it doesn’t make for a valid, productive discussion if one party continually just makes statements without responding to what the other person(s) have said, and/or failing to answer questions that are important and relevant to the discussion.
I would assume that T. would still like to know what you think about these issues (since she took the time to speak to you about them), and I certainly know that I would.
Do you understand and agree with the fact that overlooking unrepentant sin and false doctrine is NOT showing mercy? That it is indeed, nothing more than enabling behavior.
And as T. asked, do you not ever hear any of this? Are these things o.k. with you?
Moving on to a different topic, you wrote:
“Gabrielle may be America’s youth pastor, if not him,WHO? It’s for sure I can’t think of another youth pastor that draws as many youth. The WORD of God says that God uses the weak and foolish things of this world to confound the wise.
First of all, my Bible doesn’t say anything about the office of “youth pastor”. It’s nothing more than a manmade, trumped up position. A man is either a pastor…or he’s not. Secondly, Even if there were a biblical position as “youth pastor”…who would determine who would be “America’s youth pastor”? Answer: all I can offer is that I have no reason to think that it would be the Swaggarts! ”. And again, even if there were…I see nothing that would support that it would be this young man. You have to realize that outside of the relatively small number of people in the world that continue to follow and support the Swaggart ministry…Gabrielle is a completely unknown. And as T. and many others have rightly pointed out, to the vast number of true, Bible believing, born again, sincere Christians in the world…the Swaggarts have the well-deserved reputation of being unrepentant sinners, con artists, and at the least…preaching and teaching serious error, if not downright heresy. The only ones trying to market and anoint Gabriel as “America’s youth pastor” are the Swaggarts…not God, not any God-fearing church, denomination, movement. As far as you’re not being able to think of another youth pastor that “draws as many youth”…that has nothing to do with anything. If drawing in large crowds of people (youth or otherwise) was a true, biblical measure of God’s approval or blessing…then we’d have to say that the Muslims are truly blessed of God…because at present, they’re drawing in more people to their “faith” than any other religion on the planet. But for that matter, I could easily name off many Christian “youth pastors” that draw in far larger crowds of young people than Gabriel.!
You wrote:
“I do not watch as much as you, but I can’t help but like to listen to the a Study in the Word discussions and Message of the Cross’.
Actually, you CAN help it that you like to listen to what Swaggart preaches and teaches. Since when is a child of God held prisoner to their “likes” and “dislikes”? As for Swaggart’s “Study in the Word” discussions and “Message of the Cross”…I have no hesitation to say that the man is so far in error that I have no confidence in his Word ministry – period. I don’t have the time to write the several volumes of books that it would take to explain why I have no confidence, so that’s something you’ll have to research and decide on your own if you’re truly concerned.
What truly concerns me is that over the course of our talking back and forth over several days now are the times that you continue to say “I like this…and I like that…and I can’t help this, and I can’t help that”…as though this gives you a valid excuse/reason for continuing to have a connection to the Swaggart ministry. At some point you’re going to have to put aside what you think, feel, believe, or like about the Swaggarts…and closely examine who they are…not just who they say they are.. and what they teach…and see if their lives, teaching, and doctrine align with the scriptures…or you’ll continue to be unsure of exactly what the truth is about them.
I’ll close by saying this: there far too many good people in ministry, people who have clean reputations both within the church, and without…to even consider having to depend on people like the Swaggarts. I’m not sure why anyone would be wrestling with the question. My prayer would be: Lord…give me men like Ravenhill, Tozer, Wilkerson…keep me from men like Swaggart.
Jimmy Swaggart is for real, he loves God and he wants to see souls saved, is he perfect now way Hosea, God doesn’t want us to look to man like an idol of perfection. Maybe he does have some pride in his heart, but that’s not for anybody to judge and when he accepted Christ he was justified and he is in Christ and Christ will sanctify him. Don’t worry so much about him you need to focus on your own lives and allow Christ to sanctify you.
With all due respect, how do YOU know that Swaggart is for real when the Bible itself says that the heart is deceitfully wicked and none can know it? We CAN NOT judge his heart- you are correct. However if you are well versed in the Word you will soon discover that we ARE to judge the actions of those who say they are brothers in Christ. By his continued practice of a lifestyle of unrighteousness he proves himself as insincere. We are to worry about the lives of others- I worry about his very soul just as I would worry about your soul if you claimed with your mouth to be a Christian but your life revealed continual and habitual sin.
Here is an excellent article for you about BIBLICAL versus hypocritical judging. http://richvermillion.com/2012/05/14/judging-hypocritical-vs-biblical/
All true Prophets prophesied of Jesus and his Death on the Cross
but after the Resurrection there can be no “new” messages concerning Jesus because the next action from jesus is his return
Which no one can predict.
That is why John the Baptist said he (jesus the Lamb of God)
Must iNCREASE and i (prophet) must DECREASE
For ALL true prophecies are already fulfilled in the Fact that Jesus rose from the dead
And the very last SIGN is the Sign of Jonah
Which is the Resurrection
Which the Apostles confirmed
And the true Elijah John the Baptist did no Miracles
And God warns us after Jesus who is the fountain of forgiveness and shepherd who was slain in Zechariah 13
That all so called Prophets who will come later are ALL LIERS
Without Exception (Zechariah 13:3)
Who have damned themselves before Jesus Christ
In 1991, my family and I moved to Chattanooga, Tn. On several occasions, I stopped by a local Christian book store that was housed in a building that had been converted into a sanctuary and offices for a ministry called ‘The Christian Training Center’. During one of my visits, I met a woman named Elizabeth Fuller. She related that she and her husband, Clyde owned the building and her daughter from a previous marriage, Carol Towe was the pastor of this ministry and also had her own TV show on a local station. When Elizabeth introduced herself, her name sounded very familiar. Eventually it came to me that one of my first cousins was married to one of her and her present husband’s daughters. Elizabeth was always friendly when I visited, but this connection gave us a real connecting point.
During a particular visit to the bookstore, Elizabeth related that Jimmy Swaggart would be speaking at the church later in the month and she invited me to come to the meetings. I thanked her for the invitation, but respectfully declined. I think that she sensed that like many, I had no confidence in his ministry at this point, as the first prostitution incident had occurred. She very excitedly began to tell me, “Oh…Jimmy has changed. He’s repented”…etc., etc. Once again, I related that I wasn’t interested in attending and she finally gave up on the idea of convincing me that “all was well…with Jimmy’s soul”.
Swaggart never got to preach at those meeting at The Christian Training Center…because before the meetings could take place, he got busted again…with a prostitute in his car, just outside of Palm Springs, California. Correction: he was not busted in HIS car, he was busted in a car (a Jaguar, as I recall) that belonged to his good friends…Clyde & Elizabeth Fuller, who had a home in the area that Jimmy was staying at. Do the names sound familiar?
As for my reasons for not being willing to attend the Swaggart meetings…it wasn’t about a lack of forgiveness on my part. I had no interest in attending because I had heard or seen nothing from Swaggart that indicated that he had experienced a true repentance. Believing this had nothing to do with “knowing his heart” …it was because, as John wrote in an earlier posting on this thread,
“It’s not about forgiveness, of course God will forgive. But what about fruit of repentance? Jimmy would not step down and seek true restoration. So what was the result? Three years later he was caught again in California with a prostitute. That was 1991 and we really have no idea how long it went on after that. But again even after 2 public embarrassments would God still forgive but he still is not really showing a repentant spirit”.
If Swaggart had accepted the discipline that the AOG had handed down to him as part of a restoration process…I could have easily been convinced of his repentance. But…he didn’t. He didn’t accept the discipline after the first incident, and he didn’t accept it after the second. In fact, I recall that in a statement to his congregation after the second incident, his response to questions regarding his immoral behavior, he stated, “It’s flat none of your business! “. That’s hardly a repentant statement, right?
So especially after the 2nd incident in which he continued to take no responsibility for his behavior or to accept the discipline from the church that he so richly deserved, I’ve had nothing to do with him…and have no plans to in the future. If at any point he actually does repent and come clean…that would be wonderful for him, as well as the church. But he didn’t fool me the first time, or the second, and I have no intention of listening to anything he will ever have to say again, especially after reading first- hand accounts, such as Mischel’s that tell me that nothing seems to have changed in the man’s life.
Here’s a link that will tell you a bit more about the Fuller’s involvement with Swaggart and his ministry. The article was written shortly after Swaggart’s 2nd “fall from grace”.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/190438/SWAGGARTS-GLOBAL-TV-OPERATION-WILL-CEASE.html?pg=all
In the “for what it’s worth’ category: during the months after Swaggart’s frist dalliance with a prostitute, I dropped into a convenience store in a small town just south of Nashville, and there was Jimmy Swaggart, waiting to be checked out. I said, “Hello, Reverend Swaggart”. He smiled and said, “Sorry! I’m not Jimmy Swaggart. I get that all the time”. The man even told me that the odd thing was that he’s actually a minister! I might have bought it, but if you’ve ever heard Jimmy Swaggart speak even one time…you know the voice. Walking away, there was no doubt that he was indeed…Swaggart, but why he chose to deny his own identity, I’ll never know. It seems that deceit abounds, anywhere the man walks.
Thank you for sharing your experiences! You are one of the few people that I have come across that articulates the correct, Biblical approach with regard to Jimmy Swagart! The last paragraph is quite telling. I don’t understand what motivates some Christians to defend, support and put their trust in people like this!
T. – Only now did I find your response, and I appreciate your words.
This website places some responses in weird places! It’s been great chatting with you as well. Gives me hope that there are still plenty of Christian brothers and sisters with critical thinking skills!
Critical is is the KEY WORd…;)
Doris, You misunderstand the usage of the Adverb “critical” as a modifiER to “thinking” Look up the full definition of “critical.” It can be positive or negative…. but most importantly, it should be accurate!
You don’t do a lot of thinking…critical or otherwise, do you, Doris? 😉
Wahahaha I do
T. – With all due respect (and you do deserve a lot of respect for everything you’ve said on this thread), Doris hasn’t misunderstood anything. She’s not a thinker…she just regurgitates out of context scripture and snippets of Swaggart sermons and tries to pass it off as actually having an original thought of her own. Her attempts at making a “thoughtful” response …it comes out as a garbled mess. She reminds me of a time that an attorney friend told me about defending a client against his ex-wife in a child custody battle. The attorney pointed out that when dealing with people who think in a logical progression, you can anticipate what their answers are likely to be…and you can prepare accordingly. But with people who don’t think in a logical progression (such as the ex-wife), they are almost impossible to prepare for because they’re simply “all over the place”…and there’s no way to prepare for that! Such is our friend, Doris. It’s as though she throws all of her thoughts into a bowl…and regardless of the question or topic at hand, just reaches into the bowl and reads whatever she pulls out. I’ve never spoken with a person in my entire life whose thought pattern is as disorganized, and I worked with the mentally ill as a social worker for several years…
I live in Tennessee. I’ll write more tomorrow. Thanks for your concern. I really do appreciate you.
Doris, I don’t know if you noticed, but I live in Chattanooga. Do you mind if I ask what part of Tennessee you live in? Hope to hear from you tomorrow!
I live in Kingsport,Tn….I use to live in Nashville, Tn. Moved to Kingsport from Nashville. Yes I noticed that you said that about Chattanooga, that’s the reason I put where I live(the State). Ok we ill correspond tomorrow. Pray for me.
I have relatives in Kingsport! My father grew up there, but it’s been a while since I’ve visited. My wife and I met while we were both living in the Nashville area. Will definitely continue to pray for you!
I just read the article by owner of this website where she compared the takeover of Monsanto of the seeds of the world to jsm.org. I am very well versed about the genetically modified food problem we(U.S.A)have . France,etc doesn’t have this problem. The gmo’s are HERE in America. Keeping with the comparison to jsm. JSM is going for the “entirity” of the WORLD.
It seems to me that simply because I do no write extensively as John and T. I have been referred to as a non thinker.
I consider myself to be able to go up against “the man” JS himself as far as what the Bible teaches.
We have alot of false teachers and preachers today.
Kenneth Copeland
John Hagee
Prince
Joyce Myer(Since she got her mouth worked on by the plastic surgeons…I had to count her CRAZY)
Let us mention the MUSIC and SINGING at jsm . We all love it . Is that correct? Even T. said she studies Bryan Haney’s style of playing the piano because she is a piano player at the churchHOUSE she attends.
The modern church is in shambles, I agree with the Swaggarts on that fact. I have seen too much wrong doing in the Baptist church since I have been saved. I have seen them throw people that spoke in tongues and were filled with Holy Ghost OUT OF THEIR CHURCH HOUSES. Since they are all 501c3 tax exempt status they will NOT preach on the issues of today that is bringing judgement on AMERICA …HOMOSEXUALity and ABORTION. For this reason my husband and I repent of being involved with the Baptists. They are as mean as they can be. I have met personally many of the preachers today. I have met John Hagee, I have met Johnny Hunt of Atlanta, I have met Youseff of Atanta ( he is a no heller) I asked him myself and he also backed it up with an email. My uncle Eddie Liberman brought Youseff here from Egypt as a young man . Haggihi(sp) Institute.
I’ll have to write more later. However, my point is …they are all wrong on some point. I repent of ever listeing to Hagee and the others. If I had not known the WORD of GOD for myself..I could have been deceived by any of the ones I mentioned.
David Jeremiah is about the only one I like to listen to now.
There is a lot of wrong doing in the Pentcostal Church too.There is good 7 Bad in every denomination.
There was no way to reply to you regarding your last comment. When I say I can’t help but watch the study of the Word etc. It’s the same with Swaggart as with anyother preacher/evangelist,etc…I like to see it they agree with what the Bible teaches. i find myself listening to the music . I do like it. That is what I mean by can’t help…I consider myself a Berean. If it doesn’t line up with the WORD, I know it.
Ok …just wanted to be able to answer that. Take care John
I am always suprised by the attitude of brothers who never forgive another brother who has sinned and has already repented from his sin. what the word of God says: the righteous fall seven times , seven times he raises up.
if you spend your time criticizing your brother that is fine but how many times do you pray for him. Jesus never recommanded us to spend our time blaming our fallen brothers. Paul said to pray for each other. when did you pray for this family,last time?
I understand your concern and yes, I would have to say that all those that I am personally know who have spoken out about what goes on there, DO pray for the Swaggarts. We wish them no ill will and want them only to repent and turn from the lies, deceit, mistreatment of employees, and other things we dare not speak. If brother Swaggart had had one peccadillo and had repented there would be no issue. However, first of all, it was NOT one prostitute, and it was NOT one time. Please research this yourself. There was a PATTERN of this behavior. There has also been a pattern of tolerating the sexual indiscretions of employees, and misuse and abuse of those who have tried to speak out. While we ARE to pray- we are NOT to tolerate a continual habitual lifestyle of unrighteous living. David Wilkerson tried to warn Swaggart right before he fell, instead of listening and repenting and confessing, he did not allow Wilkerson to ever speak there again and he also put an end to what had at that time been regular articles in the Evangelist Magazine.
Are you sure of what you are writting or it was told you by informats
I’ve seen this sort of sexual sin very predominately in big, pentacostal ministries. I was told all my life how evil the bars were, and yet I have been around ministries where the sexual affairs were more predominate than any bar that I have ever been to. My suggestion…..flee. Flee any and all of these big hyped movements. I have seen the lie time and time again. I saw it in Pensacola….and then in Dallas…..and again I saw it in Kansas City.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Hello everyone! For days I have been researching and reading all the comments made concerning the Swaggart ministries and their dynasty of nepotism. I started out investigating it see if I would support it (I enjoyed it and really ministered to me) or if it was a false portrayal of the Christian Truth. For days, I told myself that I would not believe anything negative because I felt it was coming from people were disgruntled former employees or past unhappy and unnoticed parishioners. Sadly but true, I have come to the conclusion that there is too much deception to say that I can honestly follow or support such an organization.
I was in search of what was meant by “the message of the Cross.” So I invested in books and even the entire set of the commentaries in search of this. My first opinion was that they indeed were not written by a scholarly person and that much of the material was attributed to may other authors (of which I already had and could easily look up) but it was written in a more simpler manner and every day language. That was ok, I could dismiss that. Then I got the monthly magazine this month (Nov. 2014) in which David is the center point written by Jimmy. I got curious and went to the related scripture and, sure enough, it was taken almost word for word from the Commentary of same reference scripture. But the book of ‘David’ is being sold separately for as much as $30.00. Then, I followed up with my line of research and checked on the scriptures in the book of “The Message of the Cross” (also sold for $30.00) and sure enough, I found it had been duplicated out the commentary by the same reference scripture word for word. And I sold myself it was not plagiarism because it was Jimmy’s own writing in the commentary and I excused it as the fact that not everyone can afford the complete set of commentaries and thus can still obtain the needed information.
I debated with myself and with the Holy Spirit for weeks whether to support the ShareAthon or not and in weakness I gave in but insisted on not using a credit card and that I would mail in money. That ends up being my saving grace because I have decided there is too much uncertainty and questionable behaviors to honestly support them. I feel that God has blessed us with x amount of money but He expects us to be good stewards of his financial blessings and that is what I will do.
And where I believe like many others, that we should not speak ill or negatively of others–I think the stark lies and duplicitous (what an accurate word!!) nature does indeed require exposure. And I feel that anyone that does not take this warning of looking into this allegations (or facts) is in serious danger of being deceived.
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
Please understand. I am not attempting to influence any reader to think one way or the other. God gave us each a mind with which to think and make decisions but he also gave us the spirit of discernment for our protection and for His glory. Thus any decision you make concerning the JSM has to answered to to God and as a steward how you spend the money He entrusted you with. If your consciousness is clear–then support them. If it is not and the Holy Spirit checks your action–then do not support them.
I want to thank all who have participated in this thread and in other similar site for enlightening me and thus allowing my to make up my own mind concerning JSM. Which I am saddened to admit the overwhelming evidence against is convincing but I am also glad that I have found all before mismanaging what funds the Lord has entrusted me.
The commentaries and books….what will I do with them? Oh, I will keep them to double check myself when I am researching further topics with opposing views. But I will certainly ‘consider
the source’ as far as taking them as the ‘truth.’
Blessings to all. And I hope you find the answer to what you are searching for I have.
You are more discerning than a lot of people. So many just keep blindly following. It seems to me you have a sincerity too. You don’t have a vendetta with the Swaggart’s but just really wanted to know the truth.
We have been worshipping with the jsm via direct tv ..Praise the Lord. It’s great . We have been saved for 23 years and were saved in a baptist church. We remember all about Jimmy Swaggart and what happened in the late 80’s ..i know it was awful , but God forgives and restore.
The Lord is using Jimmy Swaggart again and his music to win the world to Jesus. We give to them …yes we do and we love to give to help them get Bibles to preachers in foreign countries and to buy air time. We pray the Lord’s blessing on them and we pray God lead and guide us continually.
In my opnion,I like Billy Graham & Franklin Graham.They preach the true word of God,without judging you.They don’t judge me because I like country Music,etc.I feel blessed to hear Billy Graham or Franklin Graham preach.
Also,someone told me,they wrote to Billy to request the book they were offering,but the person said they did not have any money.Billy sent them the book anyway,free of charge.I think that’s great.
And,in all the time during Billy’s TV broadcasts,they kept their fundraising on a low level.They never took the whole time begging for money.
I feel far more blessed listening to Billy or Franklin preach.They are true men of god,in my opnion.
And,I believe god is using Billy Graham & Frankin Graham to win more people to Jesus.IMO.
Yet the Swaggarts claim that unless one is filled with the H.S. with the “evidence” of speaking in tongues, NOTHING can be accomplished for God! Clearly, this is false! The Holy Spirit resides within every believer, and He will give power to overcome character defects and sin, and live out God’s plan and purpose successfully.
The Swaggarts et al continually make claims that are laughably ignorant and false…eg, if a believer fails to confess a sin, the guilt of that sin rests upon them (they are not forgiven)! Another claim….it’s impossible for anyone to overcome an addiction without Jesus (apparently the only sober people on earth are Christians). I could go on and on….
Like Swaggart always says most of his congregation were Catholics. So they fall for anything and Swaggart loves that.
Why is my comment still under “awaiting moderation”? It has been almost 2 months and still it is not up for discussion. If you found something offensive in it or untruth that you wish not to publish it then please just delete it from your site and let me know that this has been done. Thank you.
I believe Jimmy swaggart is ok right now. There are no perfect people
Doris,
On what basis do you believe Jimmy Swaggart is “ok” now? Trust and respect must be earned! Any organization that structures itself like JSM is not trustworthy! Please don’t waste your hard-earned money on someone like this!
If you don’t like Swaggart you wouldn’t like King David would you? The Lord doesn’t judge your giving on WHO you give it to , he judges on the desires of a individuals heart. I can assure the baptist are just as bad, IF NOT WORSE. I have given to them for 20 yrs.
Actually, the Lord DOES expect us to be good stewards of the money, time and talent that he gives us! Any charity or religious organization asking for money should be vetted by the donor. Your last two sentences are quite surprising!! What do you mean by “the baptist (sic) are just as bad, if not worse?” And WHY would you support a denomination/church for 20 years if you don’t think they are worthy of the funds?
JSM exhibits classic nepotism! All the power for decision-making resides with a Swaggart family member. They don’t hide that fact. It’s glaring prideful, arrogant behavior. Power and money corrupts, and Swaggart has proven that he can’t be trusted.
Listen,I have lived and I have learned. I have given 20% of my gross income to The Lord , not a person. It’s my heart which the Lord will judge as to WHY I have given what I have given. Just like The Baker’s , all the people that gave to his stuff , their hearts were probably in the right place. As for keepin it in the family and not caring who says what….The Kennedy’s did the same thing. Bobby Kennedy was the Atty. Gen. for his Bro. John f. Kennedy. Also the Clinton’s …Hillary and the Bushes for that matter. You have no argument. the Lord Loves Jimmy Swaggart just like he loves the whole world. Atleast they give BIBLEs to preachers in foreign countries and in America. What do you do? I know they are doing more than me. I like the Swaggarts. They are a rough bunch that do not take alot off people. I like that.
T. Heim,
Why do you care so much about DOWNING the JSM.org and SonlifeBroadcasting and personally going back YEARS to dig up dirt on people like Jimmy Swaggart ? I believe Donnie Swaggart is a stand up person and a good man. His Son Gabriel seems to be the same. Why don’t you look in the mirror and try to get right with GOD yourself.
T. Heirm…
In response to your question about Baptist. I have given my tithe to The Lord through the Baptist churches…The Lord knows my heart. I don’t need you to judge my givng.
I’m not judging. I can even forgive. I have yet to watch sbn without hearing one of the swaggarts or one of there associate pastors or another pastors come preach with out bringing up the message of the cross. The cross did not lay down it life for me Jesus did. I have never heard so much bragging either. Put not hour alms before men. Boast not. The constant begging for money how about trusting in God to supply your needs.
Doris, I just came across your recent comments and starting writing a response…but decided to ask you if you’d like to have a legitimate discussion about the Swaggarts, or if you’ve said all that you have to say. I’d welcome an opportunity to talk with you and I’ll be watching to see if you respond.
I love to .
Doris, Thanks for responding. I won’t be able to talk at any length until tonight or perhaps tomorrow, but I was wondering if there’s anything else you’d like to add to the discussion, as far as why you don’t seem open to even considering the possibility that you might be wrong about the Swaggerts (?)…and i was also wondering if having had time to consider the comments that you’ve made thus far, are there any changes you would make…anything you’d have said differently, anything that you would have said that you didn’t…anything you wish you hadn’t said?
No …I am sure . I know of what I speak.
Doris,
You asked why I care about Swaggart’s ministry……I care about the gospel, about what christianity truly is and how it is presented to the public, and about what a relationship with Jesus Christ looks like! The Swaggart’s behavior makes a mockery of the gospel and presents christianity as detestable! I don’t have to dig up any dirt about anyone, especially the Swaggart’s! I was around before, during and after his public humiliation. But even aside from his past despicable behavior (not just the prostitution, but the HYPOCRISY of his public humiliation of other brothers in Christ while he was involved in his own sinful behavior), his ignorance of the scriptures while putting himself forward as a “theologian,” an “apostle,” is laughable! All one has to do is listen to a few hours of programming to pick up on how illiterate Swaggart, Francis, Donnie and most of the “yes-men” who follow Swaggart around appear to be. Their inappropriate grammar, word-usage, pronunciation, is unbearable at times. And the claims Swaggart makes concerning what “God told him” are laughable! Just last night when they ran one of the “classics” (his 1980’s crusades), Jimmy claimed that he asked the Lord how soon His return would be, and Jesus said that He doesn’t know the day or the hour, but that He (Jesus) told the Holy Spirit to “HURRY!” I kid you not! The Swaggart’s are some of the most arrogant, proud, holier-than-thou people I’ve ever heard or seen in my life. They constantly berate “the modern church” which by the way, they know nothing about! They constantly create “straw men” and then preach against their own fanatical creations! I wish, in fact I pray, that they go off the air. I would NEVER point a seeker or unbeliever to their ministry. They embarrass me, as a Christian, because they give Christians a bad name! They are not honest people. I say this because they set up their organization the way that dishonest people do….keeping all financial records, etc. inside the family…having no board of directors to answer to, all the while standing up and pontificating in their sermons about how honest they are! They wouldn’t have to keep claiming that they’re honest if they weren’t afraid to be transparent. I have paid very close attention to the people that follow and support them. They are poorly educated, intellectually lazy, easily intimidated by overbearing personalities, in low to middle class socio-economically, easily manipulated, and primarily come from a religious, fundamentalist-pentecostal background (I don’t mean to be unkind…by the way, that’s one of Jimmy, Frances, Donnie and Gabriel’s favorite line right before they slam someone or something in a very un-kind way)! I don’t know how they can do what they do, day after day, with a straight face! There are a lot of charlatans when it comes to TV preachers, but this family is a cut above them all! If it wasn’t for their undeniable musical talent, I predict they would be just another little southern pentecostal church around the corner. Some people will overlook a lot of things when they’re being entertained with good music.
I am curious about something, though. Debbie Swaggart, Donnie’s wife/ex-wife (not sure what she is) must be invisible. The woman is never to be seen, and rarely mentioned by Donnie. She is never in any video of the services. Donnie showed the viewers her “office” on an episode of his “Backstage” program a few weeks ago, however, it looked like a desk, a phone and very little around it that would appear than anyone actually “works” there. It’s quite odd, since the other family members are constantly paraded around there. There are rumors on the internet, but who knows what to make of that. Something seems very strange about their relationship and her place in that family. Do any of the parishioners dare to comment?
Are you related to Bob Henderson? Are you his sister? Had to ask;)).
They try to have fun and show their humanity. That’s the way I look at it. The only one I think is arrogant is Francis.
That could be a cover for being so country ..she has a difficult time speaking. Im sure she doesn’t think that slow.
What is your claim to fame? ha …
Are you just attempting to be humorous, or sarcastic?
I believe that Jimmy Swaggart and the other swaggarts are mere men and women and they are under the same guidelines of the BIBLE ot an nt as King David and Josesph and Jacob,etc.. The devil had to try to destroy Jimmy Swaggart in the late 80’s …his ministry was winning too many souls for the Lord Jesus Christ. Jimmy Swaggart has been forgiven by the Lord Jesus and has worked his way through the mental anguish of his downfall.
. DO I KNOW this for a FACT? No…This is my opinion based on the Holy Word of God.
No I am being serious …are you just a commentor like me or do you have a specific agenda in your questions to me?
I’ll ask what someone else has already asked. You said that you know that Swaggart is “o.k. now”. How do you know this?
I’m just a person like you. I’m no one special and I have no agenda.
I asked you how you know that Swaggart is “o.k. now” and I found your answer to the question to be confusing. Initially you said:
“No…I am sure. I know of what I speak”
But in your last response you said:
“Do I know this for a fact? No. This is my OPINION based on the Holy Word of God”.
So which is it? Do you “know” of what you speak, or is this just your “opinion” ? There’s a huge difference in “knowing of what you speak”…and merely having an “opinion”. It obviously can’t be both.
Another thing that’s confusing is this: if hypothetically, Swaggart and his family have continued in their wrongdoing over the years, to what chapter of the Holy Word of God would we got to find this out? God’s Word has plenty to say about how the church is to deal with those who are in sin, but it leaves it up to us to observe the lives of our brothers and sisters in Christ in order to determine IF they are in sin.
So to be certain that I understand you, am I to take it that you aren’t even open to listening to anyone who would assert that they have evidence that supports the fact that there continues to be sin and wrongdoing in the Swaggart ministry?
What you are asking me would require knowing a persons heart. I have to decern what I believe to be evidence of a changed life. I observed what happened to Jimmy Swaggart back in the late 80’s since that time I personally feel that he has been dealt with by GOD almighty, I sense that he has had personal demons and has had to put his problems under the BLOOD of Jesus just like anyone else that comes to GOD(JESUS). Am I saying he hasn’t made mistakes sense….? NO. I do believe he keeps short sin accounts with the Lord. I believe he studies the WORD constantly and attempts to keep his personal “demons” of lust , whatever the case at bay, by not being on the internet etc. I have to take him at his word. That is what he claims..If you want EVIDENCE of this statement. I would refer you to the way the Lord has promoted jsm.org and sonlifebroadcasting All over the World. I can’t offer better evidence than that.
Correction: SINCE*
Doris, I waited for a while to see if you’d respond …but since you haven’t as yet, I decided to go ahead and finish the remainder of my response, which goes as follows:
As for the first part of your last comment…we at least agree on one thing: that the Swaggarts are mere men and women …and I would assume that you’re attempting to point out that they’re subject to falling into sin just like anyone else. However, this can’t be used to excuse their sin. I noticed that in one of your other comments you used the old and worn out, “nobody’s perfect” line in an attempt to defend the Swaggarts. That’s the kind of excuse that I’m referring to. And when pressed harder to defend Swaggart, instead of offering anything of substance to support your position that “he’s o.k. now”…you dredged up the old, “well…everybody else does it too! “…defense, citing everyone from King David, to “the Baptists”, to Jim Bakker, to three different American presidents and their families. God sees past this type of excuse making and He doesn’t accept it…and neither would any Christian with a minimal amount of maturity and understanding of God’s Word.
Moving on to “the devil trying to destroy Jimmy Swaggart”…
While I’m sure that the devil was more than happy to see Swaggart wallowing in uprepentant sin, it’s not really fair to the devil to blame him for Swaggart’s downfall…as Jimmy was doing an excellent job of doing it all by himself. “the devil made me do it.” may have worked in a ‘70s era sitcom, but in real life…not so much. As for Swaggart’s ministry “winning too many souls”…knowing what we know now, it’s apparent that any souls that were won during those years were won despite Jimmy Swaggart and his ministry. Souls were won due to the fact that despite Swaggart’s rampant sin and hypocrisy, the Word of God was still being preached…and for no other reason. I wonder if you’ve ever considered how many people that were directly hurt and spiritually damaged after finding out about Swaggart’s double-life? You seem very concerned about Swaggart and his reputation…but how concerned are you about all the people whose lives were damaged by his sin and deceit? Even more importantly, how concerned are you about the fact that he drug the Holy name of Christ through the mud and brought dishonor to the One that he professed to be his Lord?
You state that “Jimmy Swaggart has been forgiven by the Lord Jesus…”. Hopefully you’re correct. Yet only God and Jimmy know for certain if he repented of the sins he committed in the ‘80s. But even if we assume that he has, the discussion we’re having is about purported sin and various types of wrongdoing that he and his family have been involved with SINCE the ‘80s, and that continues until this day. Contrary to what you’ve asserted, people aren’t just “digging up dirt from the past”…they’re reporting present day dirt.
You say that Swaggart has “worked his way through the mental anguish of his downfall”. When I first read this, my mouth literally fell open. It’s incredulous to me that you would have the audacity to speak of the mental anguish that Swaggart brought on himself by his own decision to not only sin…but to keep on walking in sin for years. The Lord only knows how long the behavior he was involved in would have continued if he hadn’t got caught! How can you mention Swaggart’s anguish without acknowledging the anguish of the literally hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people who not only trusted their hard earned money to the man and his ministry, but who trusted him to look over their spiritual welfare and teach them the ways of the Lord?
People were hurt by his sin problems in the 80’s …HOWEVER, they had their faith in Jimmy Swaggart not JESUS the Christ. GRACE is what I’m talking about . It seems you hate the Swaggarts . Is this true?
Doris,
Despite the fact that you chose to ignore my last comment and questions I posed to you …I’ll go ahead be polite enough to answer yours.
You say that “people were hurt by his sin problems in the ‘80s”…well, wake up, Doris. People are still being hurt by his sin problems in the year 2015. That’s pretty much the reason this topic is even being discussed on this blog.
“HOWEVER, they had their faith in Jimmy Swaggart , not JESUS the Christ”. You’re absolutely correct! The question is: why are people such as yourself continuing to exhibit this blind faith and loyalty despite having been betrayed by Swaggart over and over…and over?
Next you say, “GRACE is what I’m talking about”. Since you’ve provided absolutely no context whatsoever for that statement…I have no way of knowing what you’re even talking about.
It seems I hate the Swaggarts? No. I don’t hate the Swaggarts. I hate the fact that they are deceivers of God’s people. I hate their hypocrisy. I hate the stain that they are to the name of God and to the gospel of Christ. I pray that they repent of their sin and wrongdoing while they still have the opportunity to do so. I have no doubt that Jimmy Swaggart had a calling on his life to minister the gospel, but he allowed sin to live in his life and unfortunately, he’s no longer a minister of the gospel…he’s an enemy of the gospel. He’s ruined his life, he’s led his entire family away from the cross…and he’s damaged the lives of countless others, especially those who dare to expose him for what he is.
JOHN…I’m not writing these comments for you to attack my writing skills. I am making short comments and hurriedly. Keep the smarty pants remarks to yourself. It’s good to know you do not hate the swaggarts. I didn’t even know that the swaggarts were back on tv until March of 2014 and I was too young to follow him in the 80’s I got direct tv in march of 2014 and a friend informed me of jsm music etc. So NOOOOO I do not blindly follow Jimmy swaggart. I do uphold for the grace of God to restore such a one back to fellowship with God.
I’m not “attacking” your writing skills, I’m pointing out the fact that on the rare occasion that you actually respond directly to what I’ve said or asked, it’s difficult to understand what in the world you’re even talking about.
I believe in the grace of God being able to restore a believer back to fellowship with God…but there has to be repentance. I’ve seen nothing from the Swaggarts that indicates that there has been true repentance. I can’t see inside Swaggart’s heart…but I can see the lifestyle he leads and the way he conducts his ministry and his relationship with others, and I’ve seen nothing good since his tearful “confession” . By the way…he’s never said what he did. He’s only said that he’s sinned against God. Why can’t the man just say that he committed adultery for years…and that he’s a sexual pervert?
I have a feeling You will never be satisfied. Without going back to look at my comment. I do believe I said repentance. Which simply means an about-fact.
What do you think about Jim Woolsey? Do you believe he knows what a “crook” the swaggarts are and have been ….according to you.
Do you think you are perfect? I know I fail the Lord everyday and I have to ask forgiveness all the time.
Don’t you worry..the devil doesn’t care how high one goes before they fall….the higher the better. The higher the fall the more people see it. The Lord will only take so much IF they are as you say.
Have a wonderful day, Doris! 🙂
Amen, John!
Many people seem to miss the fact that the Swaggarts blame others for what happened to Jimmy!! They never concede that his sin is what brought them down!! They are very bitter and angry to this day…at the Assembly of God, at Marvin Gorman, at the devil!! He has NEVER taken responsibility for what he (Jimmy) did! He and Donnie and Gabriel constantly preach bizarre and unbiblical sermons emphasizing Kind David’s sins, or other biblical characters. They don’t EVER preach about what the Bible says about church discipline when it comes to THEM…but they’ll turn around and talk about how strict they are when it comes to control of their parishioners lives! They plainly state that Jimmy answers to no one (accept the God in his own mind)! They accept everything this guy says or does as God’s perfect will!! It’s sick, unhealthy, terribly dangerous and completely unbiblical. Only the weakest, feeble-minded person would ever buy that! (Or anyone who the Swaggarts believe they need to further their own kingdom..I hate to call what they do as ministry, because it is the antithesis of that)! Just because someone has a little truth mixed into what they say does not negate all of the lies, deception and false doctrine! They are no different that any other religion that they refer to as a “cult!” (Am I being too strong?…another Swaggartism)!
The Swaggarts make all sorts of claims about how big, how successful,SBN is. Of course, there is NO independent verification of their claims. If what they claim is true, why not publish a financial report to their donors?? They blatantly LIE about how many Expositor’s Study Bibles have sold…they count the ones the GIVE away on their Bible-thons! And the “biblethon” is just another fund-raiser for JSM. People aren’t actually donating Bibles, they pledge the money, but whether that money is actually used to purchase and donate bibles is another thing. Their claims that pastors have requested 10,000, 15,000 bibles in one country is highly suspect! Have you ever noticed how the bible-thons raise about what the shortfall happens to be during their monthly fundraiser? And I suspect they are inflating their numbers in order to appear more successful than they really are…because they, and many of their donors cite the growth and “success” of SBN! They constantly claim how “impossible” it is to be so successful so quickly! So everyone of you who donate ought to be asking yourselves, HOW DO YOU KNOW that any if what they claim is true? Have you investigated their claims before you decided to give your precious resources to them? Television is a powerful medium! Why do you think there are so many Christian TV networks popping up? There is a new one almost every year! I hate to admit this, but many Christian people are Sooooo gullible. It’s so easy to stand up and claim the biblical principles of God’s blessings when we give to God, and saving one soul is worth all the money in the world, etc. It breaks my heart! Donnie loves to have people donating $1000 checks to walk up and give them so he can publicly announce it. People don’t realize how manipulative that environment is…the music and shouting that literally works people into a frenzy, the desire to get in on the excitement. They make it look so easy….because it us…..and they laugh all the way to the bank and are accountable to no one because NO ONE HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE!!
The Body of Christ needs to wake-up! God has given us a brain, our intellect, common sense, discernment with the help of the Holy Spirit, to make good judgments. We will be held accountable for the resources God has given us. We aren’t off the hook if we blindly give without judgment! No human being is unaccountable to all human authority! Anyone who thinks he/she is IS Dangerous!!!
They can’t hold a candle to you & John and you mean-spirited comments. Do you pray for the swaggarts? You and John are both devils…you have a good day ….MISS HENDERSON
Why do you have to use a New Living Translation. Can’t you understand the true WORD of GOD….the King James Version. You can throw that translation in the garbage. It has been watered down so far it’s pitiful.
Thank you for the comments you’ve made throughout this thread. I meant to thank you earlier! Reading several recent comments, I realize more than ever how deep the deception runs in so many churches, and how easily some people are deceived.
For the past couple of years, I’ve been researching and studying what would be most easily described as “the present state of the church in America”…and what I’ve found is beyond disturbing. It’s simply sickening. Without going into a lot of detail, I’ve sought the Lord and poured over the scriptures, trying to get a better grip on why and how people are deceived by the enemy. Though I don’t think I’ve yet to full understand the full picture, I believe that 1) some believers fall into deception because they are young in the Lord, unlearned in the scriptures, spiritually immature…and therefore vulnerable to be taken advantage of…and 2) those who down deep…know better, but fall into the category described in IITimothy 4:3 …”For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears”.
As I’m sure you’d agree, we live in dangerous times…and none of us can afford to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that all is well. We have to be diligent to keep ourselves before the Lord and in His Word. T. Heim…I appreciate your defense of the faith. And we all owe Mischel, and others like her, a debt of gratitude for being willing to put her neck on the line to warn the flock. I’m thankful for her most noble work.
You problem is you have a lack of LOVE…The Love of God. Speak the truth with Love. I seriously doubt you have ever prayed for Jimmy Swaggart…try it sometime. If you pray for someone you will come to truly care what happens to him.
I am not related to anyone involved at JSM, FWC or SLB. And Swaggart is not worth fighting over! I’ve prayed for the Swaggarts, praying that God will minimize the damage they create. I’m not too concerned about SBN getting too influencial! The “gospel” they sell in not appealing to anyone outside of people who are either already religious fundamentalists or highly uneducated. Swaggart has NO credibility within any organization, denomination, theologin, Pastor in the Christian community outside of his own organization. Not one! He writes his own literature, his own Biblical interpretation. Not a single person endorsed his Exp.study bible (unheard of). No Christian publishing company would publish it. Swaggart has had to create his own kingdom….his church, publishing company, bible school and “seminary”, children’s school through high school, TV network. ..everything! He has created his own world where he is king, answers to no one! Why do you suppose that is?? This is a guy who can’t get along with anyone, has the respect of no one, and can’t stand to be under anyone else’s authority or control. It’s as “cult-ish” as any cult has ever been. This guy has a giant ego, and in his prime, ran the AOG because of his fund-raising ability and popularity! He was the most influential because of money! At one point, they were raising $600k per DAY! He couldn’t stand to be brought down and dealt with like a sinner with a problem. He only has himself to blame! He loves to run the videos of his old crusades…his glory days! He even sells them, telling folks to “see what God did in this great move of God in the 1980’s.” I believe he’s trying to recreate his glory days. That’s why the big push to get SBN to cover more potential donors…that’s the real reason for the push to expand! Not to get the gospel out! It appears they are coming to a plateau, as they can’t seem to get past the $3.5m range, even though their numbers are not trustworthy!
Sadly, even in the face of the facts, many will still follow them for their reasons, whatever they are. Charlatans succeed because they are talented people…they are great actors, storytellers…very believable! Whether an investor that will swindle people or sexual perverts who molest children…they look innocent and trustworthy!
I grew up in a church like FWC. The pastor was respected, believable. No one thought it strange that he insisted on being the only one who counted and deposited the offereings. Yes, we had a board, but they were intimidated by him. Long story short, he was caught stealing, went to prison, and to top it off, he was a closet homosexual living a very promiscuous life. In retrospect, there were red flags all over. The classic signs that something is amiss is secrecy and control…especially around a charasmatic personality! Anyone who does that has something to hide! Don’t support that! Run from that!! You are being abused!! And for some reason, classic behavior of an abused person is to PROTECT the abuser! Wise up!
I don’t. The only thing I’ve noticed is they are trying to make Gabe into a clone of Jimmy. Of this I am sure. He going to start his youth crusades in March.
At my house we refer to Francis as “Big Moma” and Jimmy as the “Master of Ceremonies” or the ring master. Jill, Gabe’s wife is almost a clone of the fabricated look of Francis. I do predict that Gabe & Jill will have problems…she looks oppressed.
I thought it looked like Frances trying to emulate Jill. She cut her hair into the same style that Jill has. Do you know anything about the situation with Donnie’s wife Debbie? It’s rumored that Donnie married a psychiatrist after his divorce from Debbie, which is quite ironic considering their attitude toward psychiatry!! Divorce records are public documents. It’s strange that someone hasn’t looked up and published the documents to confirm the truth or otherwise of the rumors. Christians…even pastors get divorced, sadly. It’s just very odd that the family isn’t upfront about the truth….again, a sure sign of corruption!
God will hold them accountable IF they are infact unrepentant heathens as you and John seem to believe. I can only judge righteous judgement from the things I see them do MYSELF. John 7:14
Doris,
You are taking a very naive approach toward evaluating the appropriateness and worthiness of this ministry! The facts are clearly there in order for anyone to make a proper judgment. However, even if one chooses to ignore his past, there is plenty of evidence coming from his (Jimmy’s) own mouth to determine that he is untrustworthy and promoting a warped, distorted gospel. God EXPECTS us to test the spirit, to hold ourselves and those who profess Christ accountable to the Word for what we do and say as believers! I think that Christian television is one of the WORST things to happen to the gospel in all of history. Most of what’s broadcasted is garbage…it ends up being “entertainment” for the already “churched” population. Most unbelievers would have absolutely no idea what is being discussed because it is religious talk. The further you are from the ministry, the less you can truly know about those running the ministry! When I think about how the billions (yes, billions) of dollars Christians throw at these ministries just to keep themselves entertained or “fed” it makes me sick! Oh how that money could be used to better the lives of humanity…to minister as Jesus taught with the parable of the good Samaritan! Shame on us!! Most of what’s on Christian TV is what is considered extremist, fundamentalist views…fake faith healers, get rich quick prosperity doctrines, fake and or misused “speaking in tongues”. I detest ministers who repeat stories of miraculous healing without verification!! This is done so often that nobody blinks an eye! To repeat stories that one has not verified IS bearing false witness!!! And it promotes false hopes to those who are in desperate situations! Donnie repeated one last Sunday about a woman who supposidly gave birth to four children after having all of her reproductive organs removed due to cancer!! I have heard 5his same story repeated by other TV preachers, particularly when they are raising money!! I’m in the medical profession and I have attempted to verify these stories, because I can assure you that any woman giving bit without a womb would be written up in some medical journal or news report anywhere in the world that it occurred!! This abuse disgusts me greatly! Think how GOD must feel to have false stories spoken IN HIS NAME!!! Judgment must be coming…and the ministries who pull this crap must be first in line!
If you wouldn’t write a book for a comment it would be easier to respond to your comments ….they are toooooooo long
I’m sorry you feel that my comments are too long…but to be honest, while I hope you’d gain something from reading them, so much of what you say is in error and is a potential stumbling block to others that I feel compelled to expose that error for their sake…not just yours. You certainly didn’t mind taking the time to respond when you were offended by my comment about your poor writing skills…but when I address serious spiritual matters, you obviously don’t think they’re important enough to spend your time on. I’ve noticed that in response to several people who have made comments about the Swaggarts that you don’t approve of…you repeat your mantra of: “If you don’t like Jimmy Swaggart, you probably don’t like King David either”. Well…think about this: If you don’t like my “books”…you probably don’t like the apostle Paul, because he wrote several of them.
And before you even start….no, I’m not comparing myself to the apostle Paul in terms of my spirituality. However…I have every confidence that the Lord has had me to speak to you thus far. But don’t worry…as it pertains to you, I’m close to shaking the dust off of my feet and moving on. It’s becoming more and more obvious that you’re full of rebellion,that you’re prideful, spiritually arrogant, unlearned and unteachable…and obviously deceived. If that sounds like a rebuke…that’s because it is.
I am a born again child of God. If you don’t like me , take it up with the Lord Jesus. I know the Word of God. I would put myself up against you anytime. Once we are born again, I do believe we are always saved…as the Bible teaches. Nothing can seperate us from the Love of God. Restore to me the joy of THY salvation. Its not our salvation, it’s the Lords …so how can we lose it? I really couldn’t care less what you think. So you see I do not believe like the swaggarts. They believe you can lose your salvation..WALK AWAY ,I do not. God gives us eternal life not life for 6 mos. or til someone fails the Lord. I’m going to continue to comment whether you think it’s a stumbling block or not. All I know is when one reads our comments …..YOURS ARE FULL OF HATE. Mine are a little sweeter. ;))
“I’m going to continue to comment whether you think it’s a stumbling block or not”.
Have at it! And if your comments are indeed a stumbling block to others, I’ll continue to rebuke you.
The Swaggarts teach the Arminian view that you can lose your salvation should you chose to return to a life of sin and repudiate christ as your savior, However theologically they really teach unconditional eternal security. They have continually said your sins are forgiven “past, present, future.” This is reformed theology and the only conclusion is that if all sins are forgiven past present and future then there is no time in which one could lose salvation because all sin is already accounted for in the event of conversion. I am not wanting to get into to a debate as to the merits of this theological position or the error of it. My point is that sadly the swaaggarts are theologically ignorant and blend systems of teaching that really can’t be blended.
The swaggarts maybe alot things….theologically ignorant IS NOT one of them. The devil knows the Word enough to twist it.
Oh my, Doris! I don’t know what your theological background is, but I assure you they are ALL theologically ignorant. Biblical knowledge is not theology! Theology is the study of God and takes into account not only Biblical texts, but other sources as well. One must be able to process and interpret scripture accurately using historical accounts, and other disciplines like philosophy, history, linguistics, religious philosophy, sociology etc. The Swaggarts operate in a vacuum…Jimmy only uses commentaries that agree with his own interpretation and viewpoint. He has had NO formal education. He thinks God speaks to him, but he never allows what he thinks to be questioned or challenged. I honestly believe that I likely have more theological knowledge tHan he does. He is very familiar with the CONTENT of the scriptures, but his conclusions and interpretations are very poor!
Do yourself a favor and start reading some Christian theology. I recommend C,S. LEWIS’S “Mere Christianity.” Read Leo Strobel’s “The Case for Christ.” Read some apologetics. My 2 favorites are “The Reason for God” by Timothy Keller, and “How Can I Know” by Robert Jeffress. A good book looking at the Calvinism vs. Arminianism theological perspectives is “Young, Restless and No Longer Reformed” by Austin Fischer (a protégé of my bro-in-law Dr.Olson).
I’m willing to bet that you will view Swaggart et.al. in a much different light after reading any of those! I hope you will take the time to further investigate SBN, JSM and FWC!
Exactly, John!! It’s so clear that they are sorely ignorant of basic theological systems! The “Message of the Cross” program is hilarious! They constantly repeat themselves and contradict themselves over and over! This is why that anyone who is mildly educated will completely disregard them. And you can tell the quality of the people who listen to them by the emails and callers on F &F program. Only the un-educated or poorly educated people are involved with them, read their Bibles and commentaries, etc. And this is where I believe they are doing great damage! And why education is Sooooo important! Those who are uneducated can be so easily exploited… in all areas of life!
Take care John! I think I’ve had all of the Swaggarts I can take for awhile!
I would disagree I think they are extremely theologically ignorant. But Im not going to try and change your mind. Listening to their show will let you know that they have no idea what they are talking about.
You don’t like what I said about King David. It hits home doesn’t it. He was a murderer,an adulterer, a liar and STILL a man after GOD’s own HEART. What about that. Jimmy Swaggart is much that way.
“So don’t bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you. But correct the wise, and they will love you.” – Proverbs 9:8
Our conversation has ended, Doris.
Wow, see what I mean?! Every Swaggart follower I’ve ever spoken with (and there have been many) has made those same statements concerning Swaggart and King David!! Donnie preached that sermon, and Jimmy, Donnie and Gabriel constantly repeat the same garbage. What kind of standard does that set for a new testament church some 4000 years later? I dare say you would never give a pass for murder, adultery, lying, etc.to a politician, policeman or your child’s teacher! Why are your standards for a minister of the gospel so low?!? There are consequences for sin! There is always forgiveness, but the damage done can be irreversible! Restoration is not guaranteed! Swaggart was caught red-handed with a prostitute. He refused to cooperate with the discipline from those in authority over him. He lost his credentials. Three years later, he was caught again in the same sin! Clearly demonstrates that the problem was never addressed. Then, in the most arrogant slap in the face, he looked into the eyes of the body of Christ and said that this was none of our business!! ANYONE willing to support this man after this has no self-respect, or respect for anything the gospel stands for!! I think there is something wrong with them. It’s sick! And nothing good or healthy can result from a sick environment like that! Every person who supports him needs to look in the mirror and ask themselves why! I believe the reasons would be quite revealing and very selfish. It’s either someone’s livelyhood, desire to play/perform musically, or agreement with an abusive, fundamentalist gospel!
The truth is that he can’t even fill his Baton Rouge church to capacity…even twice a year during their camp meetings! Their “media church” is a joke! There isn’t a town or a city in the US that doesn’t have a church that preaches the gospel! The purpose of belonging to a local body of believers is for fellowship, discipling, and service. Anyone who thinks that they are the ONLY church (including their affiliates) preaching the “true gospel” is clearly decieved! They’re drinking the kool-aid!! Last night, Donnie made the statement during the tel-a-thon that SBN is the number one soul-winning ministry in the world!!! He would have to know every single ministry to make that claim! They constantly make grandiose claims about themselves and the ministry, and constantly tells their supporters that they are part of an exclusive ministry, the one that God has called to lead the world and on and on. So those who buy that do so because of pride! They tear down every pastor, denomination, ministry, person that does not see things exactly as they do! I don’t understand people who want to be associated with that! Whenever one of the Swaggarts look into the camera and tear down and/or say critical, ugly things, the crowd roars with applause and hallelujahs! Yet many of those get totally offended when any criticism is directed at the Swaggarts!
I will just ask people who want to support JSM to do some soul-searching, get honest and take a second look. What is your motivation? Are they worthy of your trust and support?
The Lord will deal with them ALL if it’s as bad as you say. Sounds like you listen and watch them alot. I personally haven’t ever heard Jimmy or Donnie or Gabe say anything like I said about King David. It just make sense that a person cannot hold up King David and critize Jimmy Swaggart. I know it’s been over 3k yrs. It’s God that called King David a man after God’s own heart. Not me. Not the swaggarts. s
I do watch them quite a bit. I’m a piano player on our worship team, so I like to study Brian Haney’s style of playing…and Swaggart as well, though I’m very familiar with him as I learned to play largely from his ministry. I was actually stunned about a year and a half ago when I ran across his broadcast of a church service. I hadn’t heard anything in years about them. I was curious to know if he had changed at all. I was stunned to see hoW much Donnie and now, the grandson Gabe emulated Jimmy! I was intrigued by his claim of a new revelation “the message of the cross.” I kept watching the programming…watching how he and those around him try to explain this “so-called revelation ” If I didn’t know they were serious, I literally thought this had to be a farce…a joke,…a comedy routine like Sat. Night live! Frances and Friends really blew me away! I don’t know how anyone can think that is good TV. It’s embarrassing! I feel embarrassed for her..and it crushes me to think that any believer or un believer would think that this is what Christianity is or looks like!! They are all so ignorant about so much !! I laughed out loud when Donnie read an email question where something they had said was being questioned and criticized, and Donnie said, “maam, don’t write about things that you know nothing about!!” They need to listen to their own advice! Jimmy claims that Mike Musseral (bot sure of that spelling) is the “leading EXPERT in the world on the cults!” Hilarious! I feel I had to view enough programming to have a fair and accurate assessment of their ministry. Now, it’s almost a morbid curiosity just waiting for them to top their last outrageous statement! I keep waiting for the implosion, which I can’t help but think is coming.
One scripture passage that has always baffled me is where Jesus speaks about many of those who minister in his name, cast out demons and do miracles in his name will be told, sorry, I never knew you!” These aren’t just people who were lukewarm Christians, or people on the fence. He was speaking of those out front, doing miracles in his name! I will never judge the heart of any person, because that is not only forbidden, but impossible, but when I see things like SBN, I have to wonder!
Before you send them another dime, or promote them to others, or follow any of their teaching, take some time to really listen to what they are saying. Read several different versions of scripture. Find and attend a solid Bible teaching church. Baptist, presbyterian, weslyan, non-denominational. Question what ministers say. Get into a good bible study group. You’ll be blessed, and grow spiritually!
I agree with what you said about Fand F and Donnie. I feel sorry for Gabe . I expect a bad outcome there. I agree about the scripture you quoted about false prophets. I trust the Lord that he will deal with all of them IF they are truly just in it for the Love of filthy lucre. They have done great exploits in Jesus name but it is very possible that they never have had an intimate relationship with HIM. I consider myself well versed in the Word of God. I was raised studying the Word. Thank you for your advice though.I was a drug addict and when I was born again 23 yrs ago I was instantly delivered. Praise the Lord!
That’s amazing! Thank the Lord for His work in your life! I am also in recovery from addiction. God has been faithful in my life and recovery. I love the Celebrate Recovery program! I’m very active in CR in my area!
Take care and God bless you!
Thank you and the same to you. I have become very disgusted with the “churches” this day and time and I do agree with the swaggarts that the seeker friendly churches are an abomination to God. The 501c 3’s as well ..the preachers are AFRAID to preach the issues of today. They are afraid of the IRS. I do like that the swaggarts preach about the issues of today even they are a 501c3 taxexempt status church CORPORATION. We just got home from Montana, KALISPELL..There’s a preacher there that left his church in Florida of 35 years. His name is Chuck Baldwin. go to chuckbaldwinlive.com on sundays at 4:30mt or 230et
Thank you and the same to you. I have become very disgusted with the “churches” this day and time and I do agree with the swaggarts that the seeker friendly churches are an abomination to God. The 501c 3’s as well ..the preachers are AFRAID to preach the issues of today. They are afraid of the IRS. I do like that the swaggarts preach about the issues of today even they are a 501c3 taxexempt status church CORPORATION. We just got home from Montana, KALISPELL..There’s a preacher there that left his church in Florida of 35 years. His name is Chuck Baldwin. go to chuckbaldwinlive.com on sundays at 4:30mt or 230et.We know Chuck , he ran for president in the Constitutional Party in 2008. He became fed up with the letters pastors receive from the IRS each yr. telling them to stay out of politics.Anyway, check out his website and also listen to him on Sundays LIVE on his website. I will continue to check out this website and make short comments.Best to you.
Are you Bob Henderson’s sister..?
Chuck Baldwin: now there’s a real last days nut job!
https://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/christian-militacy-chuck-baldwins-blatant-appeal-to-violence/
T. Heim, Just a word of warning…I just wanted to remind you (or make you aware if you didn’t see the comment) that while Doris seems to be snuggling up to you now, she’s the same person that very recently referred to you (and I), saying…
“They can’t hold a candle to you & John and you mean-spirited comments. Do you pray for the swaggarts? You and John are both devils…you have a good day ….MISS HENDERSON”
To be sure you understand, I’m not writing this because I’m offended…instead, I’m writing because this woman is as unbalanced and unstable spiritually as anyone I’ve ever spoken with. If you read the entirety of her comments, I think that you’ll surely understand what I’m saying.
Of serious warning: now Doris is encouraging you and others to check out Chuck Baldwin and extolling his virtues. The man is a full-fledged and dangerous dominionist. I would encourage you to read the articles that Mishel has written on the topic, as well as to research Baldwin in full. If you check out his website, I’d strongly advise you go Google such topics as: Chuck Baldwin: false teacher, heretic, heresies, dominionist.
Bless you!
John …You are a dangerous person. We should all be as perfect as you . I am not snugging up to anyone. Those that have been forgiven much loveth much,KJV…You have a label for everyone if they do not join you in your critical narrative. I do not need another human being to tell me I’m saved. You are a mean spirited person.
Please read Psalm 51 and see the deep repentance of David, he did not cast the blame on others but took full responsibility and repented. Sadly Jimmy will take the blame partially but then theologically allow himself an out. He states that not knowing the message of the cross the devil can ” override your will”. He then constantly belittles his former denomination and all past Pentecostals for that matter stating that they did not know the message of the cross therefore it was never taught to him and the result being he couldn’t live right.
This is pitiful, there have been countless thousands of Ministers who have fully known how to live for Jesus and have done so without scandal and without excuse. I don’t fault Jimmy for his past sin, I am critical of his current attitude and the way he blames others for his sin.
Hi John,
Unfortunately, people often say things on social media that they would never say face to face. Once it’s out there, it’s there forever! I have learned my lesson in this area! Also, the truth is, one never knows for sure who is on the other end of the conversation. I always use my real identification, instead of an anonymous handle, just to keep myself honest! I won’t engage or continue to engage if a conversation gets too out of hand.
I have read Mishel’s comments about dominionism. I’m not familiar with the person that Doris recommended. I’m not looking for a church, Pastor or ministry, esp. On the internet! There are numerous, wonderful churches in my area to be involved with! My brother-in-law is a noted Arminian theologian and Christian ethics chair at a major university in the U.S. He has a very instructive blog that I regularly read. However, if the internet was my only source of Christian teaching and fellowship, I believe I would be seriously lacking! We all need other believers to keep us accountable! Evangelism and discipling occurs outside of the church service!! Being a true Christian is lived out in everyday life! We are to be salt and light out in the world…not sitting in a pew (or watching on the internet). True worship is how we live for the Lord…in the smallest details of life…how we relate and treat other people, especially those closest to us. In my view of the gospel, it is not centered around the church service!….it is centered around everyday life.
I encourage everyone to get into a solid, balanced church that teaches the whole Bible….not obsessed with a particular “message.” Stick with ORTHODOX Christian doctrine, which is what we all must agree on to be defined as Christian. The secondary, non-essential doctrines are up to each group…whatever one feels comfortable with. We need to show grace to those who disagree on the non-essentials! In ALL things, charity!! God bless!
Amen
Oh T. We made a trip to Kalispell, Montana. We live in Tenn. Anyway I just wanted you listen to an online sermon of Baldwins to see what you think. He gave up an awful lot to leave his 35 year old church in Florida(Crossroads). Chuck was a Jerry Falwell student and was a member of the moral majority.
The political issues of today not being preached from the pulpits is a real big issue with me. The homosexual issue(sin) is something our country will have to repent of and soon. Also, the abortion holocaust this country ok’s …..well that issue as well flows straight to the churchhouse door.
I find it extremely refreshing to hear these issue being addressed from a pulpit,according to the Word of God.. Morality cannot be legislated . These two issue,in my opinion, are bringing judgement to America.
Chuck Baldwin is a fine person and he’s a born again child of God.
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears…”. II Timothy 4:3
I am convinced you are truly nuts and maybe the most judgemental person I have encounteredI judge righteous judgement according to the Word of God. I do not just look at what youtube says and just accept it. I like to listen for myself and come to my own conclusion.. I am a born again child of God I need no teacher except the Holy Ghost. I happen to know alot of peopleChuck is just one of them.. I dare say you have never listen to one of Chuck’s archived messages. There’s about 4 yrs. worth on the website.
Hi T.! I totally agree with you. The whole concept of following TV/internet preachers instead of being part of a local body is so far form the intended biblical pattern. And of course, the big money maker for the Swaggarts has always been their TV “ministry”. At their peak, I recall reading that they were pulling in over 150 million dollars annually…and with a few years after the last “prostitute scandal” was exposed….it dropped to less than 50 million…with less than $400 dollars (yes…you read that correctly) being given toward missions. The church needs to do as you said, an invest themselves in a local body of believers and pull the plug on the TV ministers. These days…almost 100% of any ministry that I watch/listen to on the internet is old David Wilkerson and Leonard Ravenhill sermons and interviews. I sure wish those men were still living. A couple of the last of a wonderful breed of prominent Christian ministers who led lives that were without reproach and preached the Word by the power of the Holy Spirit.
As wonderful as Wilkerson was before his car accident….I’m sure you would be able to find something negative to say…I’m just saying.
“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them’. – Romans 16:17
From a recent article about Chuck Baldwin:
Pastor Chuck Baldwin has finally done it; he’s jumped the shark and landed in the murky waters of the ‘Conspiracy Zone’.
It was bad enough when he was spouting off about imaginary Christian Internment Camps, or promoting Christian militancy and violence, but now he’s proposing the theory that Haiti didn’t experience an earthquake, but instead what occurred was man-made, created by “rogue elements within the US government”…”maybe” even manufactured by ‘Black Ops personnel’.
And why would he think this?
Because he thinks it may have been to cover up to what he is convinced is a fact; that the Bush and Clinton families have been international drug smugglers for decades, and the ‘man-made’ catastrophe was to hide their illegal activity.
Pastor Chuck Baldwin has once again allowed his imagination to run amok in this article. Frankly his reasoning and lack of common sense is spooky. I wonder if this is the type of stuff his congregation hears on Sunday morning.
“Do not call conspiracy everything that these people call conspiracy; do not fear what they fear, and do not dread it.” (Isaiah 8:12)
“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.” (2 Corinthians 10:5)
And yet another article on “Pastor Chuck”…
A Modern Exodus– Time for anotherdiatribe from “Pastor” Chuck Baldwin–who is back with still another attack on those behind the pulpit who don’t meet Chuck’s standard of the “patriot-pastor.” And Chuck’s rhetoric keeps getting shriller and shriller and…
Someone needs to mark this man as a false teacher.
Done.
“Pastor Chuck” seldom talks about sin. Almost never mentions Jesus. But Pastor Chuck keep beating on pastors who don’t preach his version of the rebellion gospel of our founding fathers. He sounds a lot like Glenn Beck. Which might make him a Mormon–except that most Mormons mention “Jesus” while talking in their sleep more than Baldwin does in a month of Sundays.
What about the pastor who preaches the gospel? Chuck has no respect for that man. Chuck does have a healthy respect for the policies of men: politics. And it is about that which Baldwin’s real passion shows through.
“Yet, all over America, Christians refuse to walk away from those churches that are, through their silence, facilitating the enslavement of their very own children and grandchildren. Worse yet, they refuse to walk away from churches that actively promote the political policies that would enslave their posterity.
Many Christians have written me in an attempt to justify them remaining in churches that refuse to take a stand for liberty.” – Chuck Baldwin
Hey Chuck! What about liberty in Christ? What about the enslavement of sin?
{silence}
Baldwin has a clear disdain for the things of Jesus and a clear love of the things of this present world. Reading him, he obviously cares little for the sheep. Except perhaps as a tasty second course…
Chuck usual preaching includes a very healthy dose of “revolt against the civil authorities”–in direct contradiction of what is clearly stated in the Bible. Men may follow the ear-tickling Baldwin, but their itching ears will be following a man, not God’s Word.
To those who read him: take heed. If there’s any walking away to be done, let Chuck’s people cast the first step.
[If this sounds a bit harsh, it is because week in and week out, we see Baldwin’s writings and without fail, they center on the systems of this world. After waiting for months to see if “Pastor” Chuck might mention Jesus or salvation or a gospel message, we are still frustrated in that regard. The well on patience ran dry this week.]
Doris and John,
I will check Chuck’s website out. I do like to search the internet and YouTube often to take a look at what’s out there concerning Christianity, etc. I love the study of theology, Christianity and the church. As I mentioned, my bro-in-law is the leading, contemporary theologian defining, describing and defending Arminian theology (Dr. Roger Olson, Baylor University, Waco, TX). I attend a Calvinist church, but I have a lot of questions about “high-Calvin ism (5-point TULIP). What I love about Roger is not only his intellect, but the graciousness with which he approaches theology. He believes, and I strongly agree, that no human mind can comprehend the fullness of God, and that our doctrine must be embraced with the deepest humility and grace. Most, if not all, people “evolve” concerning their beliefs. So why/how can one be so adamant about a doctrine that could change upon further knowledge or enlightenment? It’s actually IDOLATRY to create a God in our minds that is not a true/accurate picture of God! I think we all have done that at one time or another in our development! We should strive to study and understand all doctrine, otherwise, we can’t know why we do or do not believe what we believe. DR. Olson knows Calvinism as well as he understands Arminianism! He is careful not to mischaracterize the doctrine, and he always leaves room for his own conclusions to possibly be wrong. This is not being “wishy-washy” but being gracious and respectful! God certainly isn’t glorified when His children bicker or are unkind or unloving to one another.
I am very critical of the Swaggart ministry for the many reasons I have outlined. I try, but obviously fail at times, to state the truth as I see it without being mean. On Frances and Friends program this morning, Frances read a couple of emails that she says came from listeners in foreign countries who state that their ministry helps them, that they’ve found the Lord through their ministry. They sounded authentic and I praise God for that. It’s likely that many outside of the country are unaware of the history, and certainly not everything said on their programming is wrong or damaging. God clearly uses many things to bring people to himself. However, I believe that so much of what they teach is damaging….doing more harm than good. I just pray that God will direct people to more accurate sources of truth! God’s word will not return void!
Keep seeking and sharing the truth of the gospel! If we focus on sharing Jesus and the good news, we don’t have to rant and rave about the political issues of our day which are very divisive! When we share the Word of God, we don’t have to say we’re against abortion, because we share the truth of the intrinsic value of every human life. We can offer solutions to pregnant, unwed moms, and forgiveness for those who have chosen abortion. We can proclaim what the Bible teaches about marriage. The church has it’s own act to clean up when the divorce rate is no different that unbelievers…when Christians live in adulterous relationships by remarriage after divorce. We have accommodated this sin to the point where no one even considers it a sin anymore. We accommodate this, yet tell gay people that their life is sinful and unacceptable to God! We need to be salt and light….no one wants too much salt or light! Let’s walk humbly before the Lord, and let our lights shine!!
God bless!
T. Heim, Your last post was so very rich! As I read it I began to think about something you had said earlier today, something to the effect of sticking with “orthodox Christianity”. I so agree. To clarify something (should it be needed), although I might differ on certain points of doctrine with Baptists (I grew up in a SBC), Methodists, Presbyterians, and any number of other Protestant churches/denominations…you’ll never hear me railing against them…as they preach Christ, and Him crucified. Though I no longer consider myself to be a Baptist, I continue to have great respect for that denomination, as in my early years, they taught me the basics of Christianity. I consider them to be my “mother church”…if you will. It was there that I first heard the gospel preached…and there that I was first convicted of my sin, my need of repentance, and my need of the saving grace of Christ. I didn’t actually get saved until several years after I left home and left the church, but I will always have love and respect for those who taught and preached the Word to me as a child. On the other hand, when I see people such as Jimmy Swaggart, someone who I truly believe was called of God to minister His Word…walking in sin and deception, and leading others into the same…all in the name of God, I don’t hesitate to say that it makes me furious. And when I feel that I should do so, I don’t hesitate to call them out for just what they are. Why? Not because I’m angry in the flesh and/or have anything personally against them…but because of the harm they’re inflicting on themselves, upon others who have entrusted their spiritual welfare into their hands, and most importantly, because of the offense and disrepute it brings upon the Lord’s name. I’ve been accused in the last couple of days of being “unloving”. I don’t feel that I have to defend myself, and I have no inclination to try. However, I will say that I can think of nothing more “unloving” than failing to expose and mark deceivers within the body of Christ…and/or to fail to expose those who try to defend such and make excuses for them.
Jude 1:22-23 says, ” And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh”.
I understand all too well what this verse means. Some people are led out of deception and into the truth with a soft, kind, “loving” word. Some people have to be snatched from the fire…and people are in that fire…and fighting to stay there, “kind words” may not work. That’s not to say that you have to use “unkind” words…but there are times that you have to smack people in the face with the truth to get them to wake up, so to speak. When you do…those that are on fire and suddenly realize they’re in trouble will realize their impending plight and grasp for their salvation. Unfortunately, others will simply be offended, call you names, swear that you’re the very devil himself, and remain in the fire. Only Christ can save people…I know that I certainly can’t. But I never want it to be said that I haven’t tried my best to lead someone from the fire…the deceit of the enemy. And if getting called names is the worst that happens…I can live with that far easier than I could ever live with knowing that I stood by and did nothing while people burn. Do I enjoy being called names? No. Actually, I get my feelings hurt rather easily and they’ve been hurt over the past few days. But one thing that I was called that actually ended up making me feel very good…was that I was called “dangerous”. While I’m sure it wasn’t intended to make me feel the least bit good…the Lord spoke to me after I read those words and told me that the person was absolutely correct in her assessment of me. He told me too that I was dangerous…very dangerous; dangerous to satan’s kingdom. But so as to leave no foothold for satan to twist what I’ve just said…if I pose any danger to the kingdom of darkness, it is solely because of Christ who lives in and through me…certainly by no righteousness of my own. The apostle Paul spoke of himself as “the chief sinner”. I often joke with my wife that he couldn’t have made that claim if I’d been living in his day…as I would hold that position! And for what it’s worth…any time that I speak of the corruption of any of these ministers that are being discussed here and in other places/forums, the Lord always convicts me to continually examine myself, correct myself, be willing to receive the correction of others who have a true word of the Lord for me. The moment that I can’t accept correction or be teachable, then I put myself in the same dangerous position of being deceived and falling into sin myself.
I was raised in a non-denominational, pentecostal church. I accepted Christ as a child, but sort of went my own way during my 20’s and 30’s. I questioned the whole concept of God and Christianity, but that light of the gospel was always glowing deep within. I knew it was the truth. I started going to a Presbyterian church (PCA-the conservative and most Biblical branch of Presbyterian). I graduated from a Catholic University, and took many religious studies courses in college. When I refer to “orthodox Christian beliefs,” I mean the confessions….like the Apostles or Nicene Creed…that God is a Trinity, eternal, omnipotent, the incarnation of Jesus Christ, virgin birth, his death and resurrection, the 2nd coming of Christ, resurrection of believers, etc. We need to agree and be adamant about these doctrines to truly be identified as Christian! Doctrines concerning water baptism, the Lord’s supper, styles and/or days for worship, personal behaviors concerning clothing, entertainment, drinking alcohol or smoking, belief in subsequent infilling(s) of the Spirit, speaking in tongues etc. are NOT essential for salvation/authentic Christian living, but a matter of personal preference/conviction.
These secondary/non-essential issues is an area where I believe the Swaggarts do considerable damage! They are so adamant about every little thing, most of which they are ignorant and/or completely wrong about. Yet, they speak as if every word they speak, every idea/interpretation of scripture is accurate and truth! They leave no room/no possibility that their interpretation of scripture might be incorrect. Swaggart’s Exp. Study Bible is pitiful! It is the epitome of arrogance for a man as uneducated as Swaggart to weave his own interpretation of every single scripture in the Old and New Testament, knowing that scriptural interpretations have been debated for centuries by highly educated theologians, historians, teachers, etc. and vary widely in their conclusions!! That Bible has NO credibility with anyone possessing the credentials to examine it! Swaggart has the biggest “God complex” that I have EVER seen…and it’s so glaringly obvious that he is unqualified! If one listens closely, he makes some of the most outrageous claims about himself, what God has told him, and his “place” in the kingdom of God and Body of Christ. That attitude is clearly un-Biblical…for he is constantly promoting and elevating himself, instead of humbling himself and allowing the LORD to exalt him. So damaging!!!!
I don’t know why that ministry feels it worthwhile to run those old crusades! They are so dated that they certainly aren’t going to reach a non-believing audience. And Swaggarts reputation is so sullied outside of his small group of supporters that seeing those old broadcasts, knowing what he was doing with prostitutes after those crusades, would repulse rather than draw people to Jesus! Today, they ran a crusade from Houston, Texas in February of 1985. His message was about the new “religion” of secular humanism and how television writers and producers and Hollywood entertainers, and people like Hugh Heffner, Larry Flint, etc. were poisoning and corrupting our kids. He was touting family values, condemning sex before marriage etc. and calling what these people put out as filth etc. etc. in the typical Jimmy Swaggart hell fire and brimstone way! Of course, all the while he’s condemning all these folks, he’s committing adultery with prostitutes in every city he visited (according to his own confession to Marvin Gorman). By the way, we all know that his behavior was not a one-time “slip.” Anyway, in his sermon, he told the story of how he was up nights pacing the floor because these powerful people that Swaggart was criticizing were trying to shut him up and get him off of his TV stations. So Swaggart said that the Lord told him to summon the angels….”God gave me permission to summon angels, 2 of them to guard each side of the doorway of every TV station that broadcasts Swaggarts programs” (I kid you not)!! It would have been much more beneficial had he sent those angels to guard the doorways of the motels in order to keep Jimmy OUT of the pants of the prostitutes!
Swaggart is a laughingstock to the world….to unbelievers, and to the church! The best way he could benefit the gospel would be to go away…get out of the public eye…out of ministry. He has no business doing what he’s doing. Sadly, the few that listen to him are people who are already believers…with feeble minds and fundamentalist/extremist views.
There were many people born again during those old crusades. I talked to a man from Nigeria and one from ,s.africa during Christmas. they still remember Swaggart and the crusades which their parents were saved in at that time.God can used Balams ass in the old testament and he use the pharoah during the exodus. God uses the people HE wants to use.
Doris, while I have no intention of starting another ongoing conversation with you, I will respond to your last comment in which you said this:
“As wonderful as Wilkerson was before his car accident….I’m sure you would be able to find something negative to say…I’m just saying.”
Yes…I know you’re “just saying”, and what you’re saying is completely wrong…and coming from someone who has continually referred to me as being judgmental, it’s quite a judgmental and therefore, hypocritical assumption to make. I’ll use one your lines and say that while “nobody’s perfect!”….I have not a single negative thing to say about David Wilkerson. And in case you didn’t know it, it was David Wilkerson who while weeping bitterly, begged and pleaded with his old friend, Jimmy Swaggart to repent…just before it came to light that he had been habitually walking in sexual sin for literally years.
Thanks for sharing some personal background, T. I hate to sound like a broken record…but sincerely, I agree with everything you said. As for “orthodox Christian beliefs” & essential/non-essential doctrine…I didn’t take the time to say much about either, but I did understand what you were saying and we’re definitely on the same page. I’m on the run at present, but I’ll be reading your comments again later when I can take my time and really absorb everything! Thanks…!
David Wilkerson was a real man of GOD . I loved him and his family and the way they minister with love to the homeless and afflicted. I know he tried to talk with swaggart to try to prevent the downfall. John Ankerberg was another person who tried to talk to him. It will be interesting to see the outcome of slbtv
Bless you sister Heim, Hope you are doing well and Amen to your comments!
Doris, It seems that our comments are somehow crossing…making it a bit confusing, as some posts that I wrote and submitted before yours are showing up after yours. But regardless, I felt impressed to write you one last time, but I don’t feel that it’s necessary to post here for anyone/everyone to read. I’m going to give you my e-mail address (so that you don’t have to post yours), and if you’d don’t mind sending me a note, I’ll be glad to send the letter that I’ve written to you. You can e-mail me at: [email protected]
Thanks! John
BTW he’s on TV right now I understand . share a thon…$$$$
I don’t understand the meaning of the dollar signs at the end. Care to explain?
$$$ equals raising MONEY
Of course it is. That much was obvious. But is that all it’s about, and is that o.k. with you?
OMG are you going to over analyze ever little thing? I can’t help it if he’s raising money today. Stop taking your negative feelings for swaggart out on me. If he’s on the up and up I say it’s good he’s buying air time. If he’s a crook and a hypocrite of the 1st order I say it’s terrible. I am still in the deciding stage. BTW what’s wrong with his message. He’s a talented writer.
I like Jimmy Swaggart. I can’t help it. If you hate him,and I KNOW you said you do not…Then you are in sin. He who is guilty of the lest is guilty of the most.
OMG? Now there’s a truly Christian response to a legitimate question.
You wrote: “I like Jimmy Swaggart. I can’t help it”.
Actually, you CAN help it…you just choose not to.
Doris, I fully expect what I’m about to say to in one ear and out the other, but I one thing left to say to you and then our warm and wonderful relationship will be coming to an end. For your own sake, as well as that of anyone you ever come in contact with…please read the post that Teresa made on November 17. If you do, you’ll find a woman that has a hunger for truth, a woman that has invested her time, her efforts, her money, and a lot of time in the scriptures and in real dialogue and relationship with the Lord. You’ll find a woman who is humble, contrite before the Lord, thankful and gracious to those who were concerned for her and warned her about the danger of being deceived by the Swaggarts. You’ll find a woman after the Lord’s own heart. She would be a good example for you to follow. You could learn a lot from her. And as for Mischel McCumber, the woman you spoke of as “the female” (how disrespectful)…I’d vouch for her any day. I haven’t known her for long, but I’ve read numerous articles she’s written (not just on this site), I’ve listened to interviews she’s participated in, we’ve written each other several times, and I had one, wonderful phone call in which we discussed various spiritual issues that concern us (nine straight hours on the phone)…and my discernment tells me that I could trust her with my very life. You’d do well to listen to her as well. I’ll pray for you, but I have no wish to speak further with you until/unless I see there’s been a real change in your attitude. Pearls are too valuable to cast before swine.
If you can talk on the phone for 9 hours you have FAR TOO MUCH TIME on your hands.
Yes…more of your “sweeter” words. I’m beginning to think that you’re nothing more than a troll, mindlessly being used of the devil to try to disrupt the good work that the Lord is doing through this blog. From this point forward…you’re on my “ignore” list.
thanks
“David Wilkerson was a real man of GOD . I loved him and his family and the way they minister with love to the homeless and afflicted. I know he tried to talk with swaggart to try to prevent the downfall. John Ankerberg was another person who tried to talk to him. It will be interesting to see the outcome of slbtv”. – Doris Early
Doris, Finally…we agree on at least one thing. David Wilkerson was a real man of GOD. Consider this: if Jimmy Swaggart had lived his life with anything that approached the degree of integrity before God and man by which David Wilkerson lived his life…then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
John I could be wrong but I do not believe I am. The religous pharisee in the time of Jesus walking the earth bodily were the biggest reproach to the Lord. As Jesus said, Hypocrites,a generation of vipers, white washed seplecures full of dead mens bones. Jesus dealt gently with all groups of people except the RELIGOUS CROWD. Jesus said they are zealous, yet they know NOT GOD. The Lord God(Jesus) looks upon the heart …man looks upon the outward appearance. People will always have their opinions about WHO IS A REAL MAN OF GOD. I am so happy that the Lord Jesus is the Judge and not man. The man-made rules and regulations of a religous person is impossible to carry out to their satisfaction.
Pray for Jimmy Swaggart and the swaggart family. They must need it according to all your accusations. I do not know. All I know for sure is what happened in the 80’s and IF he has repented to the Lord and turned about face…it’s not my business to judge his decision.
Good morning, Doris! I’m a little confused. You spoke about the Pharisees…but I’m not sure of the context. Care to give me understanding of why you spoke about them?
I thought it was overly obvious ….I am talking about you. You look at yourself with rose colored glasses and everyone else with a magnifying glass. Jesus love me , this I know, for the Bible tells me so.
Touch not mine anointed and do my servants no harm. The fear to God is the beginning of wisdom. You should be more respectful of people . The Lord loves all and died for all. ONly the born again are his children…..I am his born again child of God(Jesus) . sorry I do not measure up to you RELIGOUS STANDARDS and rules and regulations.
Doris,
I was prepared to make one last attempt to have a meaningful discourse with you …but then I read your latest comments this morning and came to my senses. I feel certain that you’re so bound and determined to reject any amount of evidence that might prove that Swaggart is the lying, thieving, hypocritical heretic that he is…so why waste the effort.
Instead of trying to go further into the literal mountain of evidence against Swaggart, I’ll only offer you one reason that I will have nothing to do with the unrepentant Swaggart…and it’s an admission of perceived guilt that came straight from your lips!
When asked (more than once, by more than one person) why you believe that Swaggart is as you said, “o.k. right now”…you completely swerved and weaved and dodged giving a legitimate answer, and in fact…you gave no answer at all. All that you were willing to say was:
“I know what I speak”.
I’m going to take you at your word, that you indeed, “know what you speak”. And with this in mind, you also wrote this:
“If you don’t like Jimmy Swaggart you don’t like KING DAVID. As for Frances …she is trying to protect him from himself. Ha! They sure are doing more than me”.
This is an obvious, undeniable admission on your part that you believe Frances has to “protect him from himself”. And as you said about yourself, “I know what I speak”…so I’m taking you at your word that you know what you’re talking about. And I’m going to take you at your word because you’ve announced on more than one occasion: “I judge with righteous judgment”. And…you’ve announced on several occasions that you’re “a child of God”…that doesn’t need any many to teach you”…because the Holy Spirit teaches you. And…you’ve made a point to tell me that you know the bible, and that you can stand toe to toe with me when it comes to your bible knowledge.
So Doris, based on what you’ve said…not what I’ve said… or what anyone has said about you, I’m going to take you at your word. I completely believe you! I believe that Frances indeed…is trying to protect him (Jimmy) from himself.
And on that basis…I want nothing to do with Jimmy Swaggart. Forget all of the other accusations against him. Let’s assume that there’s a vast conspiracy against Swaggart by a bunch of Pharisees and that he’s not guilty of the vast majority of those offences that he’s accused of. I don’t need any other reason than the one you gave when you said that Frances has to protect Jimmy from himself.
I WOULD NEVER …repeat, NEVER follow a man who is so spiritually weak and untrustworthy that his wife has to follow him around trying to protect himself FROM HIMSELF.
And of course, we know what you mean by this. She’s trying to protect him from his time-proven and decades old pattern of not being able to stay out of the pants of prostitutes and spending his time looking at porn instead of studying the Word of God…as you so naively assume that he does.
There are far too many good men who live righteous lives…that can stand firmly in their own faith without having to use their wife for a spiritual bodyguard for their inability to control their carnal desires to have to resort to looking to the likes of a Jimmy Swaggart to hear the Word being taught and preached.
So thank you, Doris…for giving me a more than ample, and fully legitimate reason to have nothing to do with Swaggart. As you’ve noted many times…everyone else who’s had anything to say about Swaggart are just devils…but you Doris, you judge righteous judgment…and you, Doris…”know what you speak”. I don’t need the accusations of others to convince me that I need to stay away from Jimmy Swaggart. You’ve given me the only reason I need.
John I’m not the one that watch slbn all the time. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and trust the Lord to correct or judge them. You seem obsessed with Jimmy Swaggart. I try to have a little humor in my comments, but NOOOOO you have no joy it seems.
B.S…Don’t attempt to excuse what you said. You were dead serious and you know it. Humor or not…you know that the truth is that Frances IS watching to be sure that Jimmy keeps little Jimmy in his pants. Others, including Mishel have spoken to this very fact. You’re absolutely correct. She does follow his every move because she knows he can’t trust him. In fact, it’s been spoken of by many people that he also has a group of men assigned to him to keep him out of trouble as well.
As for as my being “obsessed”…you’re such a hypocrite. For every comment I make about Swaggart, you make at least one or two yourself. Don’t be stupid. In fact, since the vast number of comments that have been made here are by people who have no use for Swaggart whatsoever…why do you stay here, posting every day? Are you like Frances…feeling you have to protect and defend your idol?
stop being abusive JOHN….I had no idea that Frances tries to keep him outta trouble. She can’t trust the Lord that far? That’s sad , IF IT’s TRUe . You must think I idolize swaggart. I hadn’t even seen him since the 80’s until last March.
Oh please, Doris…don’t even start playing the martyr, the abuse victim. The first thing that came out of your mouth today was your calling me a Pharisee…and then of course, you’ve called me: nuts, dangerous, means-spirited, judgmental, said that I’m full of hate and that I don’t have love…more times than I care to count.
Remember when you wrote this:
“ All I know is when one reads our comments …..YOURS ARE FULL OF HATE. Mine are a little sweeter! 😉 “
Somehow…I’m not finding the “sweetness” in your comments, Doris…but I’m finding a ton of abuse.
But this is classic Doris:
“They can’t hold a candle to you & John and you mean-spirited comments. Do you pray for the swaggarts? You and John are both devils…you have a good day ….MISS HENDERSON”
In one breath, you accuse T. Heim of making “mean-spirited” comments, question whether or not we pray for the Swaggarts, call us both DEVILS…and then sarcastically tell us to “have a good day”….just as you end the sentence by accusing T. Heim of pretending to be someone named “MISS HENDERSON”! An yet gain…I’m failing to detect the “sweetness” of your comments, Doris.
You wrote:
“I had no idea that Frances tries to keep him outta trouble”.
Funny, truly funny! Well…she sure does! You’re always bragging about the discernment of yours, well I guess it kicked in full force on that one…because you nailed it! lol
Doris, it is very much your business to discern and determine a fellow believers behavior and words as they pertain to the gospel….even more so when that person is asking for your support!!! We are all accountable to the body of Christ!! Especially those who are leaders!! You are responsible to discern and act appropriately!
T. Heim, Didn’t you know that people who actually think, exercise good judgment, and sound discernment are just modern day Pharisees? (wink, wink) But then what do I know, according to Doris, you and I are just devils… 😉
Doris, You wrote:
“Yes they are held to a higher standard. I’m not going to rant and rave on Jimmy Swaggart. I beleive John handles that just fine”.
I’m going to bring a provable, indisputable fact to your attention. When it comes to (as you describe it) my “ranting and ravinging” on Jimmy Swaggart…I’ve actually had far, far less to say about Swaggart than T. Heim. If you try to deny it, I’ll be glad to take the time and do a word count of what each of us have said. But what is odd is that regardless of how critical T. is of the Swaggarts…save calling her a devil on one occasion…you reserve all the name-calling for me! lol So how is that T. pretty well wears the Swaggarts out on a regular basis, including today…but you remain generally very civil with her, but feel a freedom to give me living hell? I’ll tell you the answer: While T.Heim has admonished you, and encouraged you, and has tried to bring a corrective word to you on many occasions…she has fallen short of outright rebuking you, while I, on the other hand…rebuked you openly. Once I rebuked you, your gloves came off and you’ve felt completely comfortable to call me names, mock me, make sarcastic remarks toward me, and make faulty assumptions about me.
To be sure you understand…I’m not hoping that you’ll begin to treat T. in the same fashion. I have high regard for T. , for what she stands for, and for her wisdom, her understanding of God’s Word, and for her ability to rightly divide it. I’m glad you aren’t abusive toward her (once again…with the exception of calling her a devil), but if she can’t persuade you of how off-track you are (and make no mistake, she has certainly tried)…then I certainly can’t.
So please understand, I haven’t pointed out the disparity in regard to who “rants and raves” the most about Swaggart, or upon who you dish out the most name-calling because I’m offended. What concerns me is that either you don’t have the insight to see that this is true, or the alternative…that you’re too prideful to admit it.
If in reading this, you follow your usual pattern…instead of at least considering what I’ve said, you’ll call me another name, make some kind of disparaging remark that will help you avoid the issue totally…followed by discounting everything I’ve had to say. If that’s the case…no problem. I’m used to it.
Yes they are held to a higher standard. I’m not going to rant and rave on Jimmy Swaggart. I beleive John handles that just fine . John is a religous pharisee. I can’t stand religous pious attitudes toward people that have had a fault. The Bible teaches us to go to a one and gently restore them lest it be us next time that falls from the path. I just simply can NOT jump on a bandwagon of brow beating a fellow believer.I don’t care if they are JIMMY Swaggart. He is no different than another in the Kingdom of God. Do believe he is lost ? I do not.
It’s not up to you or I to try to decide if someone is “saved.” We can only judge behavior and character! Just an hour ago, SWAGGARTS broadcast from Los Angeles in March of 1987, just a few months prior to getting caught the first time with a prostitute. So, while Jimmy’s was preaching today’s sermon on who pentecostal are and what they believe, he was ACTIVELY committing adultery! You should just listen to his words…how he claims he’s washed and clean and full of the Holy Ghost…how people like him need to live in HOLINESS! Now, anyone who can live such a hypocritical life….can look into people’s eyes and call their behavior “wicked” because they drink wine or beer or smoke cigarettes while he is strolling the red-light district, has a sick character! Swaggart has lived a lie, demonstrated arrogance, rebellion, proved that he didn’t change his behavior despite his tearful, pathetic attempt at a mea culpa, told the body of Christ to “f-off” and demonstrated no repentance and behavior change! Now, would you enter into a business relationship, marriage relationship, friendship or pastoral relationship with an individual who demonstrates this behavior?? Anyone making that kind of choice is being very foolish! They certainly can’t think much of themselves! I don’t understand any person who is willing to support him and that ministry! I just don’t understand them. I wouldn’t choose to have a relationship with anyone who supports or defends them! If you find yourself liking, defending and or supporting SBN, JSM, take a long, hard look at yourself! What a shame!
I’m not as well versed with his life as you and John . You watch him more than me. Why?
Good question, Doris! I used to admire Jimmy Swaggart. Just like I admired my former pastor. I defended my former pastor when people would bring up evidence about what this man was doing. He was once arrested for public indecency when he was caught in a police raid of a rest-stop bathroomwhere gay men were meeting to have sex. The arrest was published in the newspaper. Our pastor claimed he innocently walked in to the restroom while traveling out a idea our city. Most everyone took his word for it. I was very young, late teens to early 20’s. I was naive, hadn’t had much life experience and had yet to be educated. It did not compute in my brain that anyone could live such a double life….especially a christian, and especially a Christian pastor filled with the Spirit! The only gospel I knew was the stuff preached in a fundamentalist pentecostal church! This pastor even reprimanded me for wearing my bathing suit while playing volleyball while I was a camp counselor at our church camp! Anyway, I found out later that some church leaders KNEW about what this man was doing, but covered it up because they needed their jobs, didn’t want to destroy the church and the ministry because it was so successful and influential in our city. They justified their actions because they felt that more harm than good would happen if he was exposed! They did nothing UNTIL the church started having financial problems despite how it was growing! It was theft that finally brought an end to the sordid affair.
Maturity, life experience, college education etc.all contribute to the development of critical thinking skills. Questioning authority is healthy! Human beings are complicated beings! No one is above scrutiny! How many times has the same scenario as my experience and Swaggarts situation played out in the media in our lifetime?? Every single one chips away at the veracity and influence of the gospel and God’s people? These scandals do great damage and undermine the “moral authority” of the gospel. All Christians commit sin and we do have an advocate with the Father. Brothers and sisters need to hold each other accountable, encourage each other, gently and humbly forgive and restore one another to discipleship! Swaggart hasn’t done any restorative work because he comes out and plainly states that he hasn’t and further, he doesn’t belive in it, even claims it’s unscriptural ( I guess he’s never read “confess your faults to one another, and pray for one another so that ye may be healed”)!
I’m the type of person who likes to have the TV on while working (I work out of my home office). I DVR the programming that I want to evaluate. Believe me, I don’t sit around and watch SBN. On DVR, I can fast forward through all the ads, music etc. I’m astounded at what is said on their network EVERY DAY! I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and make sure I understood accurately and fairly (unlike how dishonestly and unfairly they present those with whom they disagree). I am baffled that they can raise $3M+ each month, although that is incredibly small for a network that covers as many households as they claim. I’m quite curious about those who support them. Do they really listen to what is said? Are they ignorant? Do they just believe what they hear without question? I spoke with one Swaggart follower who adamately defended the Swaggarts, but upon questioning, it was clear that this person wasn’t listening and evaluating what was beinG said. During our conversations, he took a second look and ended up leaving sbn. He simply got caught up in the emotionalism. I think many are naive as a I was, and just don’t think any preacher could be dishonest. Perhaps I have a morbid obsession!
Doris, I’d love to hear what you have to say in response to these comments made from T. Heim. Anything to say, or are you going to continue your pattern of failing to respond when it is T. that has something negative to say about the Swaggarts…only challenging me if I so much as open my mouth?
And it’s not the Swaggarts place to judge us either because we like Secular music.
Brother John,
On what do you base your analysis on? Did you ever meet him?
And one last thing in closing…the old “touch not God’s annointed” misuse of scripture as an excuse to protect ministry that is walking in sin, error, and downright heresy…doesn’t work on me, or on any believer with a minimal understanding God’s Word. I don’t doubt that Swaggart was once annointed…but that hasn’t been the case in literally decades. At present, his lifestyle and wrongdoing has him squarely on a path to hell. I will indeed pray for him, just as I have prayed for him in the past.
Great
I think that my time on this particular thread has drawn to an end. I’ll close by quoting part of a recent comment that T. Heim that perfectly sums up my thoughts on Swaggart and those who follow him:
” Swaggart has lived a lie, demonstrated arrogance, rebellion, proved that he didn’t change his behavior despite his tearful, pathetic attempt at a mea culpa, told the body of Christ to “f-off” and demonstrated no repentance and behavior change! Now, would you enter into a business relationship, marriage relationship, friendship or pastoral relationship with an individual who demonstrates this behavior?? Anyone making that kind of choice is being very foolish! They certainly can’t think much of themselves! I don’t understand any person who is willing to support him and that ministry! I just don’t understand them. I wouldn’t choose to have a relationship with anyone who supports or defends them! If you find yourself liking, defending and or supporting SBN, JSM, take a long, hard look at yourself! What a shame!”
One last word for you, Doris. You’ve attempted to defend Swaggart at every turn (doing so, and then denying it), by our own words, you support his ministry financially (just as you said you support “the Baptists”…though you say they’re just as bad as Swaggart. Your words not mine). As T. Heim said, “I wouldn’t choose to have a relationship with anyone who supports or defends them! “. I agree. I can and will continue to be concerned for people who are so naive as to put confidence in this man and his ministry, and I will continue to pray for them (including you Doris. Mock me if you please…), but just like T. Heim, I will have no relationship with such a person.
Doris, despite the fact that I strongly suspect my words will fall on deaf ears, I encourage you to heed the advice and the warnings that T. Heim has kindly sent your way. And once again, if you’re truly open to learning the truth about the Swaggarts and their ministry, I encourage you to read Teresa’s post from November 17th. If you follow the scriptural approach that she utilized in finding the truth…and you do it with an open heart and mind, then you will find the truth as well.
I’m sure that I’ll be checking in on this thread from time to time, but I’ve offered all that I have to offer and to try to say more would be a waste of my time and would serve no good purpose. God bless you Doris, T. Heim, John, Teresa, and all that have offered their comments. Oh…and God bless Mischel for exposing sin and deception in the church!
There are others …they just haven’t been caught. I’m not supporting him. I would have mercy on anyone that is so hated. Apparently many do not feel the way you and T. do . You have judged me and that is fine. I said OMG …you rebuked me , then you say BS and f–off . So you are human .
Just simply stop commenting to me.
I’ll ad one last thing. You’re not only rebellious and unteachable, you’re a liar. I absolutely did not tell you or anyone to “F-off”. T.Heim rightly stated that that is what Jimmy Swaggart told those who tried to get the legitimate answers they deserved in regard to the second time he got caught with a prostitute. I suppose that you didn’t have like it when Paul said, ‘I count it all dung…(the common term of the day for what we would presently call “sh_t”. There’s a difference in talking in plain language…and being vulgar, or as you did, using the name of the Lord in vain, with your teenage text language “OMG”. Your grasping at that word reminds me of what T.Heim said about Swaggart preaching against people who smoke or drink a beer…when he himself was sleeping with whores. You’re right, many don’t feel the way T.Heim and I do, but the vast majority do…throughout the Christian church does. Swaggart is a laughing stock to the world, and an embarassment and a stain on the Lord’s good name and his church. You wrote, ” There are others…they just haven’t gotten caught”. Such a religious, old, worn out line that I’ve heard from so many people over the years…when people try to defend those for whom there is no defense. So what that others haven’t been caught? When they are…it’s our duty to expose them as well, and we will.
It must get old trying to expose swaggart ALL THE TIME. All I am trying to say to you 2 is THE LORD will handle Jimmy Swaggart. He doesn’t need you 2. I know he Jimmy Swaggart did wrong according to the Word of God. I can’t punish him anymore than he has been punished and embarrassed. I’m sure uall are saying HE CAN’t BE EMBARRASSED! He is a heathen and so forth. I’m sure it was embarrassing for even swaggart to get caught in prostitution while preaching against everything that moved.He reaped alot and I’m sure he has more to reap . I know that teachers and preachers are held to a higher standard. He is still human and the Lord Jesus died for him.
p.s. – I choose to stop commenting to you, not because you told me to…(you have no right to tell me or anyone else to do anything), but because you’re a waste of anyone’s time, due to your rebellious, self-righteous attitude,unteachable spirit, and willful ignorance.
thanks
The following in an exerpt taken from another of Mishel’s articles entitled, “Prepared for The Slaughter: The Disarming of The Sheep”. Because it fits so well with this article as well, I wanted to post it here for those who might have missed it along the way.
“The New Testament is replete with warnings of false teachers and teachings, of lying signs and wonders, and of corrupt men who would seek to draw followers after themselves. God has not left His people defenseless. He has indwelt us with His Spirit of Truth, provided us with the example of Christ, His teachings, the teachings of the apostles, and all the other writings found in the Bible. There is a gift of the discerning of spirits given to some, but more importantly, there the ability to test all things and to be discerning, which is the responsibility of all believers. If the believer is to be armed against the deceptions of the enemy, and to remain free from his oppressive regime, then he must exercise discernment with continual vigilance. If this defensive weapon is seized and taken from you, then you are easy prey for any who would desire to take you captive.
Because of these things, it is very disturbing to me to observe a trend in the Body of Christ today. This trend is to scorn and belittle those who would exercise their God-given self-defense weapon of discernment. Those who would obey scripture and “test all things” are mocked and ridiculed from the pulpit, and labeled ‘Pharisees.’ It seems that the Church has fallen prey to the pluralistic, non-judgmental mindset of our present age. The one unpardonable sin is to question someone’s belief, or dare to say that it might be wrong. These new leaders demand you climb on the bandwagon, and if you cannot agree, then you must remain silent at all costs.”
I hope that all who read this will heed the warning…and warn others along the way.
I like this comment. There certainly is a fine line .However, Jesus didn’t like the religous crowd.
I agree with you.
I guess you have given up on me. haha
I listened to an old crusade of Jimmy in 85 in Florida …You know I believe he was abused someway when he was a child. Maybe was exposed to pornography at an early age. I am NOT making phycological excuses for him. It’s something that came to my mind.
I haven’t given up on you at all, Doris! 🙂 I think you’re a good woman, a true believer, a sister in the Lord. But I believe that what was once a true ministry in Baton Rouge is now nothing short of a full-fledged cult that honors, worships, and fails to question their leader, along with his errant, heretical teachings and unrepentant lifestyle.
Thank you. It’s very possible. It will be interesting to see what happens in the near future. If you are correct, they canNOT continue…
Doris, I have to respectfully disagree. Think about the Catholic church, or the Mormons…or any number of cults that not only continue, but continue to prey on those that they deceive. In its present state, I certainly hope and pray that the good,well-meaning people who continue to support the Swaggart ministry will wake up and abandon it…but as long as they choose to ignore all of the warning signs, JSM will continue to rake in the millions, continue to preach “another gospel”…unless God chooses to intervene and take them down…this could be a deception that continues for generations to come. Our part as believers is to have nothing to do with such ministries, and to indeed…expose them and warn our brothers and sisters of their deception and corruption. For now, “we see through a glass dimly…”, and this is one of those situations that we just don’t know why the Lord hasn’t already intervened. But…if you look at other ministries that have gotten off tracks, there are certainly many that the Lord has taken down. The Lord is allowing JSM to continue…but we would be in strong error to believe that this equates to His approving and blessing this ministry.
They certainly seem to be blessed, Don’t you agree?Atleast on the surface, we do not know what goes on at home. They have health and strength.They have children and grandchildren and great grandchildren. They are blessed in that way.
I spoke of my uncle Eddie Liberman(Baptist Courier)was 96 or so when he died and my dad also was 96. I was born late in my parents life and my mother died in her late 80’s We have several preachers in our family. They all do agree on Jesus , but that’s about it.
I listened to the Study in the Word just to see what they think about the rapture. Swaggart is the first person I’ve heard speak of the ressurection as the rapture. I guess those are interchangeable.
p.s. – as to the rapture, I have no interest in anything that Swaggart would have to say about the rapture or any spiritual topic. You can’t look to heretics for sound doctrine.
You misunderstand my motives.. I haven’t really listened to them , but I am interested just to see if what they believe lines up with the WORD. I am not looking to hiim for anykind of sound doctrine. I simply can’t say well you are right about swaggart, Johnt and the “team” without hearing them mislead people for myself. I certainly do not believe we can lose our salvation. I believe that is a lie from the pit of hell.Big Moma is the one I have heard say that OUTRIGHT. We must stay in fellowship with THE LORD by confessing our sins and short-comings daily and deny ourselves (not be self ISH).
Hi Doris and John,
I don’t know if either of you have seen F & F’s program the last couple of days, but there was enough false doctrine spewed from that panel for ANYONE with a modicum of understanding of scripture to conclude that these people are off their rockers!! Where in scripture does it describe that list of things that Frances read concerning the judgments to believers at the judgement seat of Christ?? First on her list is “false doctrine.” She looks directly into the camera, pointing her fingers at the camera, and saying “You’re going to be judged (not WE’RE going to be judged) for listening to, sitting under or believing incorrect doctrine!!” Clearly, she (and everyone else at JSM) thinks THEY have PERFECT DOCTRINE! Wow! I keep waiting for a bolt of lightening to strike that woman right off her chair!
Also, I actually heard the very first ASTUTE question asked by a listener! The woman asked about Gabriel’s story (in the sermon he preached Sunday morning) when he claims he had a dream/vision and saw his great-grandmother (who he never met) and yet he knew who she was, and the family confirmed it because they claim he described what she looked like accurately! Her question was how could Gabriel have seen her in a body. Now, the scriptures clearly state that when we die, our body goes back to dust and our soul/spirit goes to be “with the Lord.” We are not in bodily form, for we will not be given our resurrected bodies until the resurrection! So how could he have seen her in a body? Frances didn’t know how to answer that so she threw it out to Jim Nations, who said that we have “spirit-bodies” until we get our resurrected body (no such thing as a “spirit-body.” That’s contradictory)!! And he quoted the scripture that says in heaven, we will know as we are known (which is true AFTER the resurrection)! The Swaggart’s teaching concerning the death of believers, the resurrection of believers, the second coming, etc. is very dated and out of the main-stream of Christian theology! There are 3-main belief systems concerning eschatology within the body of Christ, with strong theological and scriptural support, and most knowledgeable believers understand and accept that we just cannot be sure which description is 100% accurate (probably none of them). The truth is, IT DOESN”T MATTER!! The only thing that matters is that Jesus will return, and there will be a resurrection of both believers and unbelievers! Jesus told his disciples, when they asked him about when the “end” will come, “Nobody knows….not even Himself.” Then He said something extremely important….He said, “heaven and earth will pass away, BUT MY WORDS will never pass away!” We are to pay attention to Christ’s WORDS, and not get hung up on speculation! Our job is to share the Grace of God until He comes back! As one pastor said, “God didn’t put us on the planning committee! We are on the welcoming committee!”
Gabriel also said that after his vision of his great-grandmother, a song started playing through his stereo system even though it was “unplugged….the cord hanging in front of the stereo!” The song was “There’s a whole-lotta people going home.” Of course, he got all emotional, crying, repeating phrases over and over again (one of the Swaggart’s hallmarks), which whips up the crowd to a frenzy (which they call the “moving of the Holy Spirit”). It was completely contrived and meaningless! It is a dangerous thing to believe, without question, anyone’s claim to supernatural visitations! Furthermore, one should NEVER take action or respond to these claims, and we are under no obligation to believe or accept such things! There is a prideful motivation to tell these stories in order to appear holy, spiritual, close to God! I can tell you that these “supernatural” claims are only prevalent in churches with an unsophisticated, minimally educated population.
I challenge anyone to listen to a minimum of 2 episodes of “The Message of the Cross”, “Frances and Friends,” A Study in the Word” and a couple of sermons by Jimmy, Donnie and Gabriel, and make a list of every false statement, incorrect interpretation of scripture, every grandiose, embellished statement concerning themselves and/or their ministry, every claim of a vision and/or personal encounter with Jesus or angels, every criticism of other ministries/pastors, every reference to “the modern church,” etc. There will be a mountain of evidence sufficient enough to conclude that this ministry is untrustworthy and undeserving of any support!
I DID hear the story Gabe told about the grandmother and I immediately thought of FAMILAR SPIRITs like when King Saul when dressed like a vagabon asked the witch of endor to bring up Samuel..and he PERCEIVED it was Samuel…it was most likely a demon (a familar spirit)…I thought of that immediately.
On f and f today I heard Donnie say that the only children that will go in the rapture are the ones whose parents are saved. What does the parents salvation have to do with an innocent child going to heaven. NOW THAT IS INSANE
I think we may have both misunderstood each other. I didn’t mean to imply that you were looking to Swaggart for sound doctrine. Sorry if it sounded that way! I think that I was more or less just thinking out loud. lol
Doris, there are absolutely heathen people, despicable, terrible people…people headed straight for hell that have good health and strength, children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren…but don’t know the Lord. In the sense that “all good things come from God”…yes, they are blessed. But…this is no way equates to their being blessed because they are living lives that are pleasing to God. Having health, wealth, and a beautiful family won’t matter…if in the end, your soul is bound to hell…and you take others along with you.
I agree with that statement.
Not just because we’re now agreeing with each other on several topics…but isn’t it great that we’re having such good conversations now? 🙂
Many unbelievers live moral lives, accomplish great things, enjoy success in life! I’m sure most Christians know unbelievers who are kinder, happier, healthier, more giving, etc. than some believers they know! The Bible says that the rains fall on the just and the unjust. Yet, Swaggart claims that “man can’t do ANYTHING without God”….or, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to overcome drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc. outside of Jesus Christ. They paint all unbelievers as drunkards, compulsive gamblers, sexually immoral, speak with filthy mouths, etc. Like I said, I was told these things as a child. But, as I grew up and saw people who weren’t believers living decent lives, drink alcohol socially (in moderation), gamble for fun, etc, I could see with my own eyes that the picture that was painted for me was NOT reality for the majority of people! I realized that I was being misled…whether ignorantly or intentionally! I feel sorry for kids who are raised in a church like FWC! Our congregation was full of sick, struggling, unhealthy people. I will bet my last dollar that FWC is full of sick, unhealthy, struggling, suffering people being religiously abused.
One glaring contradiction in their Message of the Cross doctrine is the fact that they clearly believe in looking to modern medicine for treatment of illnesses, surgical intervention, medication, etc. Now, they teach that “EVERYTHING man needs for life and living is found in the cross of Christ.” The only answer for man’s problems, including divine healing, was paid for and provided by Christ through the cross. And they say that it’s a sin, or “it won’t work” to look to man’s “schemes or solutions” for anything that Christ provided in the cross! No programs like AA, hospitals for detox, rehab, smoking cessation, counseling, etc. They don’t believe in the disciplines of psychology, sociology, anthropology etc. Yet, they “believe in” antibiotics, taking medication for illnesses, surgical interventions, basically anything having to do with the physical body but NOT mental illness, emotional/behavioral illnesses, etc. This is a clear contradiction to their doctrine that I have never heard them address! I have written to them numerous times, asking them to explain/clarify this, Alas, no answer! They are living in the “dark ages” when it comes to the great strides that have been made scientifically in these disciplines. The Bible teaches that disease was brought into the human race because of the fall. God created us in his image….not physical image, but as a physical being, spiritual being, with a soul, spirit, emotions and an incredible BRAIN, capable of reasoning, problem-solving, creative abilities, etc. Look at how brilliant some people are, and the great things that man has accomplished throughout history. Many of the brilliant discoveries have had great benefits to mankind and were accomplished by non-believers! So, when these people make such ignorant statements, no one, except for the uneducated, would ever listen to them!
Another blatantly false statement made over and over again on SBN is that the Holy Spirit IS NOT PRESENT in any church that either plays music they don’t approve of or preaches/teaches anything other than their view of the “message of the cross.” The truth is that where 2 or 3 are gathered in His Name, He IS PRESENT! Just think of the AUDACITY of that statement!! Without knowing the sum-total of ALL the churches of many denominations in the world, how does one make a statement like that??? It is the epitome of ignorance and arrogance.
JSM is taking an extremely narrow, literal interpretation of several of Paul’s teachings….1) I preach nothing except Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, 2)If one preaches any other gospel than the one that Paul preached is preaching another Jesus. They interpret #1 as meaning that every single sermon must be this same topic!! So, if a pastor wants to preach/teach on the 23 Psalm, or any of the Psalms or Proverbs, Jesus’ teaching on the sermon on the Mount, many of his parables (when is the last time you’ve heard anyone on SBN preach on the Good Samaritan…or any of the Gospels?) they are preaching “another Jesus.” They pay much more attention to the words of the Apostle Paul than they do of Jesus Christ!! And Jesus is God’s best, highest, perfect revelation of God (higher than the Bible itself).
They are way off balance….rigid…..narrow…..and wrong! What does it say about SBN and JSM when not a single denomination, theologian, college, seminary, publication in the entire Christian world endorses this ministry (including the christian music community)? Don’t be foolish enough to think that means that the entire Christian world is wrong/blind, and they (SBN) are the lone speck of light in the world!
All good points. I have noticed the dwelling on speaking with other tongues(which is scriptural),the point being almost all of Donnie’s sermons are on that subject. What I do like is how they address the president and the abortion and homosexual issues of today.
We know that the Lord delivers from addiction(immediately) it is rare but we are exhibit A for that subject.
I always have felt that Jimmy Swaggart has undergone physcological treatment after his FALL.
I have no proof that’s my thought.
Someone like me that has been raised around religious as well as the genuine born again child of God has to notice some inconsistent threads to their sermons which you mentioned.
I believe Big Moma is more of a religious pharisee than the others. One day I heard her ringtone when her cellphone rang while on Bibleton…IT WAS …BAD TO THE BONE.Wahaha
You’re right about Donnie…he either preaches on the baptism in the Holy Spirit…OR how great SBN is, how unfairly they’ve been treated, how right they are and how wrong everyone else is!!
And the hilarious thing is that his teaching on the baptism in the H.S. is problematic and unscriptural! Where in scripture does it say that the “tongues” spoken is a language known or spoken somewhere in the world?? That has been flat-out proven false in published studies on the matter, where people speaking in tongues were tape recorded and the language examined by linguists. All the Swaggart’s and their associates make this claim, and people appear to accept this without question!
Additionally, he/they instruct people seeking the baptism to begin speaking the words and phrases that begin to “come up or come into their minds.” And, he/they instruct those who speak in tongues to lay hands on the seekers and pray for them, NOT in English, but in “tongues.” So, clearly, the seekers are hearing all these strange words and phrases spoken out loud, and they’re instructed to open their mouths and start speaking! Anybody could do that! This is no “proof” or “evidence” of a spiritual infilling! The most important, crucial evidence of an “infilling of the Holy Spirit” is power to carry out God’s purpose for your life, fearlessness to share the gospel and produce the fruit of the Spirit, overcoming sin, etc. God is willing to give any of His Followers more power to serve Him. There is nothing in scripture that says that one must speak in tongues to receive an “infilling of the Holy Spirit” (infilling, of course, is a metaphor).
I have known many believers who claim to be “baptized in the H.S. and speak in tongues,” who possess very little evidence of the fruit of the Spirit, and I’ve known many believers who don’t believe in a subsequent infilling experience and don’t speak in tongues who live exemplary lives for God, accomplish great things for God, who demonstrate incredible love for people, etc. Billy Graham comes to mind!
When you listen to these “messages” in tongues and interpretation, there appears to be no purpose for what is said. They are very generic, very general, and typically religious cliches or familiar scriptural references. And, they tend to be very self-serving…e.g. “I have called this ministry to….blah, blah, or “I (meaning God) have raised up SBN…
It appears to be nothing more than “group think” and/or self-fulfilling prophecies. These “gifts” are abused. They appear fake. I see no purpose in it, and it drives people away from the gospel! I don’t doubt that there are some authentic experiences similar to what appears in Acts 2. When the disciples were filled with the Spirit and spoke in “tongues,” they spoke in languages that were unknown to them, but known to the people who heard them that day FOR THE PURPOSE OF preaching the gospel to those present! Now, that is clearly supernatural and of God! I have yet to see anything like that in modern Christianity (or recorded in the 2000 years of church history since Acts 2).
God gets NO GLORY from silly, useless behavior that distracts from the authenticity of the gospel!
I agree 100% with the explanation of tongues you gave, I was filled to overflowing in order to witness for 3 solid months and now as often as the Lord brings people in my path to witness. So I know that is correct , for a fact.
Big Moma is the ring leader, that’s what I believe Just like Fand F today…watched this evening. She always say YOU , YOU and never We .I have a problem with that always. I find that alot with “leadership” in churches
As I have said before, I do believe the modern day church has many problems, infact, it’s as mean in most churches as any bars I was ever in.
Doris, A statement, and a question:
I always have felt that Jimmy Swaggart has undergone physcological treatment after his FALL.”
Personally, I can’t imagine Swaggart undergoing psychological treatment to begin with, but if he did…the treatment obviously failed.
“What I do like is how they address the president and the abortion and homosexual issues of today.”
Could you explain what it is in particular that you like about what they have to say on these issues? If you don’t mind…I’m asking for specific details. Tx.!
They look in the camera and say, “Mr.President..We aren’t serving Mohammad, Budda etc., we ae serving Jesus Christ..On Abortion…That approx. 60 million babies have been murdered in the womb of mothers and it is an american holocaust and the blood runs to the church house door,
I’m listening to fandf right now because T. had said she listened today.
The subject is basically the Judgement seat of Christ. Frances does look in the camera and say you will be judged on listening to false doctrine. We all know that’s wrong. We stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ as his children/friends ..sin isn’t the issue at that point.
“They look in the camera and say, “Mr.President..We aren’t serving Mohammad, Budda etc.,”
What does that even mean? I’ve never heard the President say that we’re serving Mohammad, Budda, etc……..
Seriously. I don’t listen to the Swaggarts often enough these days to know and understand what they’re saying in regard to the President.
Well I know you must keep up with the news. Obama is obviously stopping short of calling Islam extreme or terrorists. We in America are losing our freedoms due to political correctness.
Most preachers/pastors/evangelists will not even mention Obama, much less Islam or politics of anykind.
Also about the Swaggarts addressing the President and saying we don’t serve Mohammad, etc.
What about the way Obama has treat Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu..?
John,
They say things like “he’s a Muslim sympathizer” and “we know nothing about him” and I think what Doris meant to say is that, contrary to what Obama has said, we ARE a Christian nation.
John meant to say…is Who is this man who calls himself the president of the USA…Oh yes he is heathen hahahahaha
I really don’t know enough about the man to declare him a “heathen”. I doubt that you do either. Just being perfectly honest. I’ve heard him say things that I disagree with, but I’ve never heard him say, or seen him do anything that equates to his being a “heathen”. I think that if his name were John Smith and he were white…and we took a look at his policies, many people would have a very different perception of the man. They still might not agree with his political views, but I doubt he’d be wrongly accused of being a Muslim and his every word and movement scrutinized as though he had a bomb attached to his chest..
Doris…I do realize that you wrote “hahaha” at the end of your comment, and i assure you that I do have a sense of humor…but i have a feeling that you actually believe he’s a heathen, correct?
Yes I believe Obama is a heathen. Nothing else explains his stance on killing babies in the womb & his belief that the act of homosexual relations is normal when the word of GOD teaches it is an abomination to GOD . It is the only thing the Lord has destroyed 2 cities with fire over, right?
****I don’t know if either of you have seen F & F’s program the last couple of days, but there was enough false doctrine spewed from that panel for ANYONE with a modicum of understanding of scripture to conclude that these people are off their rockers!! Where in scripture does it describe that list of things that Frances read concerning the judgments to believers at the judgement seat of Christ?? First on her list is “false doctrine.” She looks directly into the camera, pointing her fingers at the camera, and saying “You’re going to be judged (not WE’RE going to be judged) for listening to, sitting under or believing incorrect doctrine!!”****
Wow, T.Heim, great posts and insights into the shocking behavior by Francis Swaggart in recent days. I love Christian panel discussions so I have been monitoring F&F on and off for a few years. To be fair, this show does an excellent job in matters of exposing cults and deceptive societal trends such as Common Core.Also, when Francis has Mike Muzziral {sp} or John Rosenstern on as a guest it’s a true blessing.
However, I from the first day I watched this show I have never been comfortable with the deadpan, joyless expression Francis presents to viewers nor the juvenile eye-rolling & head shaking by a frequently exasperated Donnie who cannot believe how “dumb” callers questions are. My critique of these people may sound harsh but as ambassadors of Christ they give a very bad first impression to those who need Him most.
As for Francis’s imaginary “list”, I was sitting there yelling at the TV “where is that in Scripture!?” I find it ironic how she could point her finger menacingly at the camera with her trademark mean face, warning us repeatedly we can “lose our souls” at the Bema Seat for listening to false teachers when THE VERY WORDS she was speaking were false.
There are many, many sincere yet biblically illiterate people out there who may rely solely on people like the Swaggarts for doctrine. Thus, the threat by Francis of a “scary” Jesus who is waiting to find reasons to strip born-again believers of salvation and throw them into Hell because they “sinned” is a very grave error on her part. If that’s true every one of us is Hell-bound.
Yes I am angry about this. I despise lies of this magnitude because there’s no telling how many precious viewers will be spiritually harmed by hearing them. Francis needs to review of tape of her show and realize her finger-of-warning is pointing straight back at her.
Barb,
Agreed! I too, was appalled at her “list” of judgments! They are so misguided in so many areas. They are the perfect example of what happens when all power is consolidated around a charismatic leader, and they isolate themselves (creating their own church, Bible commentaries, schools, publishing company, seminary, etc) from the rest of the Body of Christ. They are very cult-like. You can tell by everyone’s deference to the Swaggart’s and whatever they do or say. They fall into line on every level. It’s clearly oppressive! They surround themselves with weak, uneducated people who are very easily manipulated. It’s a classic study in sociology and psychology (2 disciplines that they “don’t believe in”).
I just couldn’t resist turning on The Jim Bakker Show tonight to see what he’s up to these days, as I hadn’t tuned in for several months. Well…he’s still hawking his doomsday food supplies and fuel-free generators (your early bird special price: $2500.00), solar panels (same low price), etc.,
But of even greater interest, he was offering a book entitled “The Mystery of the Red Heifer Jubilee Offer” (for a $50 donation or more…plus shipping!) As part of his presentation, there was a video of “the red heifer”…which had what was described as a “symbolic marking” on it’s forehead that looked like a white, number “7”. And of course, there was a long diatribe on the supposed significance of all this…which I will defer from relating.
From the beginning of this presentation, there was one glaring problem: while Bakker clearly (and repeatedly) referred to the animal as a “heifer”….he also spoke of it as “he”. The issue here is that heifers are female…not male, and this animal was clearly a HE !
This animal was a BULL…NOT A HEIFER. I don’t consider myself to be an expert on many topics in life, but on this one I am an expert…as I was raised on a dairy farm in Tennessee and know the difference in bulls vs. steers, and cows vs. heifers, etc. So much for the “red heifer” that God supposedly sent to the Bakkers as some kind of “sign from the heavens”!
The deception that these people are handing out is simultaneously laughable and tragic. As much as can be said about the Swaggarts, if I had to choose between the two…I’d say that they’re in far better shape than Jim Bakker. His “message” is of the first order of deception. Swaggart is at least offering something that vaguely resembles the true gospel….Bakker is just a con-man, a thief, and a straight from hell deceiver.
p.s. – a slight correction in what I said about the “red heifer”. While it was clear that the so-called heifer was actually a male (therefore, definitely NOT a heifer), due to the camera angles, it was unclear if the animal was a bull…or a steer (a male that has been castrated). Either way…the only thing of importance is that THIS WAS NOT A HEIFER! lol
and yet, one more p.s. : Numbers 19:2: “Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke”.
Even if this were a heifer…it would be disqualified scripturally as a fitting sacrifice because it is not “without spot” (or blemish…as it is referred to in some translations), due to the white marking on it’s forehead. The red heifer of the scripture would be of a solid color with no spots or markings.
In Israel they sell hair of a red heifer ….supposedly perfect. However, It is missing some hair. Waahahha
Now that was funny, Doris! lol
Doris, I’ll respond to your comments line-by-line, as it’s just easier that way!
“Well I know you must keep up with the news. Obama is obviously stopping short of calling Islam extreme or terrorists”.
You only got that partly right. I think you’re referring to the fact that there have been instances in which extreme Islamists have committed acts of terror, and the President has referred to these people as “terrorists”…but did not specify them as being “Islamist terrorists”…or even “ extremis Islamist terrorists”. In fairness to the President and to the truth, he’s made it clear his reason for this is not to any way support these extremist, or their extreme version of Islam, but to avoid painting all Muslims as extremists, and/or terrorists…as they are simply not.
To be clear on where I stand in regard to Islam, I see it as nothing less than a godless, heathen faith, that despite the claims…does not worship the one true God that we as Christians and Jews worship. I believe that the basis for the entire religion is a deception. And just as is the case with any false religion, people who adhere to this religion are living in deception and hell-bound if they don’t look to Christ, not the teachings of a fake prophet… to save them. Yet the fact is, deceived as they truly are, all Muslims aren’t extremist and/or terrorists. There are many devoted Muslims who are also patriotic, law abiding citizens living right here in the U.S. The President simply doesn’t want to speak in a way that paints all Muslims as threats to the security of America and to our freedom. To assume otherwise is at the best, a broad stretch of the imagination…and at worst, just another meritless political conspiracy theory intended to wrongly discredit the opposition party.
“We in America are losing our freedoms due to political correctness.”
I agree that political correctness is ONE OF THE WAYS that we’re losing certain freedoms…and much of this coming from the liberal left side of the political spectrum. I despise political correctness and believe it to be a true scourge on our society. It’s an extreme way of viewing the world. But on the other end of political extremism in the U.S., we have the ultra-conservative, and regrettably, so-called “Christian right”…that is in my opinion, far more dangerous than “the left”. I’m referring to several sects of Christianity that range from many (if not most) Baptists…to the Dominionists that Mishel writes extensively about, and that are made up of Christians of many varieties, including Pentecostals, Charismatics, Church of God, Assemblies of God, and the list goes on, and on.
In one of her articles on this site, Mishel quotes Sinclair Lewis who said.”
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”.
Politicians have always used religion to promote their own political aspirations; nothing new there. But over the past two or three decades or so (starting with the establishment of “The Moral Majority”, there has been a marked increase of politicians running on a platform that is heavily dependent on persuading the American citizenry that they have been, in effect, “approved by The Almighty” to represent them in government. You’ll hear a whole lot of God, guns, and glory…as they strut about, wrapped in a flag and toting a Bible. It’s simply a fact in present day America that many Christians are convinced that the Republican Party is indeed, “the party of God”! They’re all but flat-out tell you that if you vote Democrat, you’re a supporter of sin…and that you may just not know God at all! They’ll sure as heck tell you that you’re not patriotic…and you can be sure of one thing, they’ll bring the name of Israel into the discussion as often as they have opportunity. To these folks, if you say one thing that is critical of Israeli political policies, that you’re an apostate and that you’re an enemy of God’s chosen people…and this leads me to addressing your comment about the President’s relationship with Benjamin Netanyahu
“What about the way Obama has treat Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu..?”
The fact that Obama isn’t always supportive of Netanyahu is in no way indicative that he doesn’t support Israel…any more than the fact that (if I assume correctly) you don’t support Obama doesn’t equate to your not supporting America! His differences with Netanyahu are geo-political…having nothing to do with anything of a spiritual nature. We’re talking politics here…not religion! If you read our history books, you’ll find that the Israeli’s change leadership as often as many people change their underwear. And at present…there’s an election coming in Israel, and Obama is steering clear of Netanyahu because he doesn’t want to give the impression that he is supporting the man’s run for reelection. He simply doesn’t support the man or his political policies….and once again, this shouldn’t be confused with his support, or lack thereof…for Israel! As for Netanyahu…his strongest opponent isn’t challenging him on security issues that put Israel in danger, but he’s challenging him for his perceived mishandling of the Israeli economy and alleged corruption within his administration!
As American Christians who support Israel on a scriptural basis…we all too often fail to understand and acknowledge that Israel is in many way, much like America. The fact that we so often only think of Israel as “God’s chosen people” …failing to acknowledge that they are still flesh and blood, that they have their “good guys” and their “bad guys”, that they “play politics” just like us, tends to lead us away from the fact that as a nation, they don’t always do the right thing! We can support Israel…while still being critical when they’re wrong, which is quite often.
At present, the issue isn’t with how Obama has treated Netanyahu…but how Netanyahu has treated Obama. The despicable John Boehner, going behind the back of the President, breaking all traditional protocol, arranging for Netanyahu to speak to Congress…not only without the President’s approval, but having not even informed him of the underhanded arrangement until Netanyahu had accepted the invitation! And if you think this is about “supporting Israel”…you’d be sadly mistaken. This was about nothing but politics. This was John Boehner, disrespecting not only the President, but the office of the Presidency…which is of much deeper significance. This was just political pay back and nothing more.
I support Israel…but I’m thoroughly convinced that most politicians support Israel for but one purpose: to use Israel for their own political gain. They know that most Christians support Israel on a spiritual basis, and they know that all they have to do is scream, “Israel! Israel! Israel!”…and we’ll give them our support. Because if not…we must “the enemy of Israel”…and as such, we’ll go straight to hell in the proverbial hand basket! It’s nothing more than A DECEPTIVE SCARE TACTIC! It goes like this: the Republican Party is the party of Jesus and Israel. The Democratic Party is the party of the devil and the enemy of Israel The Republican Party is the party of patriots. Democrats are unpatriotic traitors. The Republican Party is against sin. The Democratic Party is pro-sin.
In summary, the present day Republican Party has been extremely successful in brainwashing roughly half of the American citizenry into believing that they are “God’s party”…and the only party of “true patriots”. THERE IS NO GREATER SELLING POINT THAN CLAIMING THAT GOD IS ON YOUR SIDE…AND THAT IF WE SUPPORT “THE OTHER SIDE”…THEN WE’RE OPPOSING GOD HIMSELF!
Please don’t take what I’ve had to say as being indicative of my supporting the Democratic Party…or any party! I pretty must despise American politics because it is so corrupt to the core, and the corruption isn’t limited to any single party.
All sides agree on one thing: there has never been a time in history in which Americans are more polarized both in terms of politics and religion. There’s always been disagreement on both topics, but never has there been such downright hatred of those who don’t think and believe as we do. Congress used to actually show bipartisan support for laws and policies that would better the country…but now, it barely exists. It’s all about winning the next election and padding their already overflowing bank accounts. I’m not just picking on the Republicans…as the Democrats are certainly corrupt in their own ways. But I’ve spoken more about the Republicans because there is an abundance of evidence to support the fact that they got the ball rolling when it comes to dividing the country…and it all got jump-started with Carl Rove and the underhanded campaign strategy he used to get George W. Bush elected as Governor of Texas…and it only accelerated in his presidential campaigns. (if you are familiar with these tactics I’m speaking of, I’d encourage you to research them). Once it was proven to be a successful strategy, it caught on like wildfire throughout the Republican Party…and continues until this day. The strategy was simple. Wrap yourself in the flag, carry a cross, portray yourself as God’s chosen…and portray the opposition as being puppets of the anti-Christ, sent to do his bidding. And oh yea…buy guns, lots of guns…so that you can protect yourself from the marauding hordes of homosexuals that are soon to take over the country! (sarcasm inserted)
Take a strong look at what Mishel and others have written about the Dominionist movement. You’ll find the name of Israel used over and over (emphasis on the word “used”…for that’s what they’re doing: using the name of Israel for their own agenda). Of particular importance, take a look at the list of politicians who are associated with this movement. Just a few of the names: Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Rick Perry, Bobby Jindal…just to name a few. All…extreme right-wing conservative Republicans…who at least claim to the Christians, all sharing an agenda that includes taking over every aspect of American life, by any means necessary …including armed insurrection. Scary stuff. anti-Christ stuff…no less.
First of all…There is Sharia Law courts in Texas now at this present time. All of the Muslims are not as Violent as isis, however, If they are infact muslim they must believe the quran which teaches to kill the infidel and the jew.In their heart they must support isis. If they do not believe in killing the jew and infidel’s at large then they are not good muslim,.In my view there are no good muslim people. .
I agree about John bohner …the news media does a great job with their propaganda as far as keeping the right and the left as the only choices …the great divide. Sarah Palin has become a coarse joke and silly. Karl Rove is a war criminal, as well as the Bush clan. Bush and Hitler made conspiracy a bad word. GW said we will tolerate no conspiracy theroies..so did Hilter.
Netanyahu should be treated with common courtesy. He has not been. He came to the Whitehouse and was ignored by obama by not dining with him.
Everything with obama is politics. He has ruined America. The unaffordable lack of healthcare act is a tax and it is going to be the deathnail of the once great country.
You sound alot like chuck baldwin when speaking of Israel. IT”S THE LAND…not the people.
“In my view there are no good muslim people. “
That type of thinking aligns perfectly with Adolph Hitler’s beliefs about the Jews…and it led to the holocaust that resulted in the extermination of over 6,000,000 innocent men, women, and children.
We can no more judge the “goodness” of every Muslim by the words of a religious book, or the deeds of a relatively few evil adherents to their religion…any more than we can judge the “goodness” of all Christians…based on the deeds and beliefs of David Koresh and his Waco cult, or for that matter, another professing Christian whose name I’ve already mentioned, Adolph Hitler.
“….the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew” – Adolph Hitler
“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty
Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.” – Adolph Hitler
“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of
the Almighty Creator.” Adolph Hitler
As you can see from these quotes, you’re viewing the Muslims in the exact manner that Hitler viewed the Jews. I’m sure that he was as sincerely convinced that he was right as you must be!
Am I saying that you’re another Adolph Hitler? Of course not, Doris! But I’m definitely warning and reminding you of what can happen when this type of errant thinking creeps into our minds and hearts.
Something else to consider about Hitler:
“Adolf Hitler is often used as an example of what happens to a society when traditional Christian moral and social values are abandoned. In reality, one of the reasons why Hitler was so popular with conservative Christians in Germany was precisely because he promised to restore traditional morality. He opposed abortion, homosexuality, pornography, and just about everything else conservative Christians complained were ruining modern Germany”.
We really need to be careful about who we vilify…and who we deify.
There aren’t any that I kNOW or see on tv or read about. ..how’s that?Yes ..I know all about the Holocaust. How can you be so completely DOWN on jsm and jimmy and uphold for Obama? We are being led down the primrose path to HELL in this Nation by the evil tyrannical “leader” called Obama….Hitler’s favorite BIBLE VERSe was ROM. 13.We obey the government when that govern for our GOOD not our HURT.
I do like the fact that the swaggarts and chuck baldwin call out obama and the activists judges in this country.
Oh, btw I didn’t say that phyc help that swaggart may have gotten HELPED him. The point was he preaches against counselling and then may have had his own. Of course that was just my opinion ..no facts.
If you would read more carefully you’d plainly see that I haven’t upheld Obama! I simply pointed out that I haven’t seen or heard anything that convinced me of the many accusations that people have made against him. If you’d like to offer some FACTS to support your beliefs about him, I’d be quite willing to listen! Provide me a list of exactly what he’s done that leads you to believe that he’s ruined our country, that he’s a heathen, etc…and then we can talk further. I’ve talked to a ton of people who seem to have the same opinion as you…but none of them have ever been able to offer any specifics as to why they believe as they do. I’m listening…but please, no opinions, just facts; specific facts.
p.s. – so far you’ve only listed his health care bill as what will “ruin the country”. Surely you can point to more than a single bill (?)
You wrote:
“There aren’t any that I kNOW or see on tv or read about. ..how’s that?”
Not being mean, just speaking plainly: it’s a pathetically lame excuse…not a plausible reason. In fact, that’s about the worst attempt at justifying a position that I”ve ever heard, and it only supports the absurdity of your initial claim that “there are no good muslims”. I’ll offer an analogy that points to the absurdity of what you said:
I can’t recall ever hearing anything good about specific people in Mozambique, I don’t know any people from Mozambique, I don’t recall hearing or seeing anything about anyone from Mozambique on TV or radio…but that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there are actually any good people in Mozambique!
Are you truly suggesting that we judge the “goodness” of every single human that professes to be a Muslim…by what we hear or read about them? Ridiculous.
Here’s a novel idea: why not just judge people based on what we know about them, not by what we don’t know about them?
John,
Forgive me, but I laughed out loud at your comment that you aren’t biased toward the Republican Party! That brush you’re painting with is as broad as the Gulf of Mexico! 🙂
I wouldn’t characterize my comments as “biased”…more like “convinced by the facts” ! 😉 The brush might be broad…but deserved, if I can name names and offer facts to support the facts…which I surely can! 🙂
“Everything with obama is politics. He has ruined America. The unaffordable lack of healthcare act is a tax and it is going to be the deathnail of the once great country”.
With all due respect (and I say this with sincerity), I’ve heard similar comments concerning American presidents going as far back as I can remember in my 61 years on the planet. I would contend that though in some ways, the country is in a poor state of health…we’re far from being ruined. I recall, even as a kid that when John Kennedy was elected…that it was all part of a “Catholic conspiracy” to take over America and usher in the anti-Christ. Well meaning Christians got it dead wrong…as I believe they’re doing with Obama, and will probably do with each elected president for the foreseeable future. We believe that the Lord’s coming is so close at hand…that in our fear, we create “boogey man’s ” in our imagination and assign the title to the next in line. I had hoped that Obama would bring positive change to America…but I must admit that I’ve been disappointed. President’s can only do so much, as most of the real power to change things is vested in Congresss…so I probably expected too much to begin with. But neither have I seen him do anything that approaches the description of his having “ruined the country”. In fact, the economy is better than it’s been in years, unemployeement is down, gas prices are down…and we’re not fighting unjustified wars that cause needless loss of American lives and dollars.
As far as the health care act, and it’s effects…either good or bad, I’m still undecided, as are many Americans. However, I think that it’s a gross exaggeration to characterize it as being “the death nail” of the country. We wasted enough money on an unjust and unnecessary war in Iraq to fund the nation’s healthcare systems for decades to come. No single bill or policy will bring down America.
GMO foods are killing people and so are vaccines(they are not effective , as written on the enclosued inserts…says it’s not effective in black and white). Corn(gmo) is in everything High Fructose Corn Syrup …a killer. 95MILLION people are unemployed. The stock market is fixed and is run by virtual computers.
It’s overly obvious that I didn’t vote for Obama in the first place. I didn’t see a change for the wonderful country. It has been good in our day. The next generation coming behind us is in for a terrible time. Obama’s healthcare TAX is just that.
Doris, You’re sounding a bit too much like a typical crazy, conspiracy nut with all that …! lol
Go to your local pharmacy and ask them to read the insert in the flu shot. They will be glad to show you. It says it in black and white ..No testing has been done to determine if the flu shot is effective.
You must not be in the know about MONSANTO(your president did the MONSANTO protection act) …Monsanto is the huge producer of GMO foods and aspartame. Yes the poison aspartame that is unsweetened drinks. It’s mainstream news about what a killer it is…check it out JOhn before you get your labels out. To be so critical of jsm and sonlifetv you sure are off on the real news.
Doris, For the average American…Christian or otherwise, your comments on these issues would be considered to be “off the real news”…not mine. What is exactly your point? I don’t take the flu vaccine….for what it’s worth, and I don’t use artificial sweeteners…and as far as all of this Obama conspires with Monsanto stuff…and overall, the truth is that if any of us knew half the crap that we’re taking into our bodies via the food we buy at grocery stores, we’d immediately puke and then shoot ourselves in the head. So unless you grow everything you eat…don’t waste your time talking to me about artificial anything. Unless you reject all professional medical care…don’t bother me with talk about vaccinations and flu shots …. assuming that I’m ignorant of the subject. My wife and I eat as healthy as we can, pay attention to valid warnings about various health issues, take as few medications as is possible (fully prescribing to the belief that in every medicine…there’s “a little bit of poison)…and for the rest, we simply trust the Lord to protect us. There’s more than enough evil in the world without us looking behind every bush and under every rock for even more. We are diligent, we are careful, we are watchful…and we try to be wise. But paranoid conspiracy nuts…we pray we’ll never become.
95,000,000 unemployed? I’m not sure there are even that many people eligible to work in the U.S. ? lol where in the world did you get that ridiculously high number? Let me guess: Chuck?
I got the 95million people out of work from the Drudge Report.com
I got the 95million people out of work from the Drudge Report.com Hey John you occasionally have a reply option . If you want to correspond then try to make it easier for me by leaving the reply option …OKAYYYY?
I’m not sure where I haven’t done that…with the exception of when I wanted to start a different topic…but I’ll do my best to make it easy on you! 🙂
Appreciate it.
Also…..Obama said to Rick Warren during the initial election that he is a christian …he said he thgt marriage is one man and one woman . Now he says he beleive homosexual marriage is the WAY. Also he fights FOR ABORTION. He is obviously wicked.
A person canNOT be that double minded and not be unstable in all their ways. We are being led by a tyrant and an oppressor..
This is the reason I appreciate it when someone …anyone will call obama out on his unGODLY actions.
Mr. Obama has always believed in gay marriage. He “evolved” on that issue long before his answer to Rick Warren! He thought he needed to take the Biblical approach in order to get elected. With the change in public opinion concerning gay marriage, it became expedient to state his true views! How do I know…because he is the protégé of his mentor Jeremiah Wright, who favors gay marriage, AND the belief that marriage is between a man and woman is antithetical to his extreme leftist point of view.
His vote on the bill in the Illinois state legislature AGAINST the resuscitation of born alive fetuses is as immoral and un-Christian as one can get!! And consider the fact that this is one of a few bills he actually took a position on, as he voted “present” on almost everything to avoid taking a position on anything!
Talk is cheap! Those who voted for him had to ignore the problematic facts that were know about him (primarily his own words in his 2 memoirs, his behavior in his campaign for State senate and his two years there…when he was rarely “there”) for primarily 3 reasons; 1) his personal charisma and soaring rhetoric, 2) his race, (blacks, because he’s black…and whites due to guilt and to prove they’really “post-racial. And 3) his party…partisans tend to vote party no matter what! He had the assistance and protection of mass media.
Personal charisma, charm, and oratory ability cannot be underestimated in the world of mass media, social media and the superficial knowledge of many voters! The majority of voters could care less about his past behavior and actions (which are the strongest indicator of future behavior). In light of his past, the reality if his behavior and actions during his presidency were completely predictable. There’s an old adage that says “people deserve the government they have.” Never has that been truer!
Mr Obama and Mr Swaggart are very much alike….both have powerfull personal talent and charisma, which are the greatest weapons to hide true character! It proves, once again, that most humans can be easily decieved…because we want to believe what people say, very few are taught to be critical thinkers, we’re lazy when it comes to educating ourselves on the issues, we have very short attention spans, etc.
Whether it be politics or religion, we all need to be better students of the Word and/or the issues, lest we be decieved…for we truly get what we deserve!
Very well stated, sister!
Doris, You’re truly prone to exaggerations at every turn. Obama has never said that he supports either gay marriage or abortion. He supports every citizen’s right to choose…which is far different than saying that it is “the WAY”. You just made that up…as Obama is not on record as ever having said this…and you know it. That’s just Doris’ version of what she thinks he believes.
Am I exaggerating this : When a basketball player comes out of the closet…He honors that person. WHY? He will not meet with Netanyahu but he will meet with moron youtube “stars”.
He is a childish man. He goes against the Word of God. Yes he does honor homosexuals. Yes he does uphold planned parenthood…you know Margaret Sanger wanted planned parenthood to get rid of the “black weeds” ?
You are making excuses for obama’s out and out open sin. Just admit it. He is a double-minded man …unstable in ALL his ways.
why do I need to say anything…when I have you to put words in my mouth that I clearly haven’t said?
Why is it that the only sin that I’ve ever heard you express outrage against is homosexuality and abortion? It’s a constant theme in ultra-right wing circles. You’d think they were the only two sins in existence. I wonder what you and those of your ilk would have to rail against if these two sins suddenly disappeared…
You seem a little ILL today John. Those are the two moral issues that came up while we were discussing politics. The two outlandish sins which are bring judgement on AMERICA.
I can’t help it that you have been exposed for VOTING for obama. I mean if I voted for him I certainly wouldn’t deny it. I do not believe a Democrat is a Christian …IF THEY KNOW THe issues throughly.
The prez. and Jimmy Swaggart are very similar or One would expect you to think so ..
My ilk …okay…so I am with some great Americans Scott Walker, Chuck Baldwin, Regan,Ben Carson. Shall I go on?
I believe The Lord God Jehovah gives life. The life of the flesh is in the BLOOD.
Romans chapter 1 for the SIN of homosexuality. I know it doesn’t use the word…but the Bible does describe the act. Right?
Doris,
That is completely biased, and clearly not true….your statement that no Democrat can be a Christian!! Christians clearly disagree on politics! America is not a theocracy! We live in a pluralistic, secular society! We do not force our religious beliefs on anyone! Francis S. revealed that someone in the Louisiana State Legislature was trying to push a bill through to make the Bible the official book of Louisiana! They were all for it! But, if someone was pushing for the Koran, or the Book of Mormon, to become the “official” book of that state, they would be furious and fight against it! That is clearly a hypocritical, double-standard!
Doris, I can see why you are drawn to the Swaggarts, because you clearly think like they do!
You have no Idea what you are talking about when it comes to me. I only watched yesterday because you sent out a comment that said you listen the day before or yesterday. I tried to do as you did and find error in what they were saying on Fand F. i sent a comment as to what Donnie said about the rapture which IS NOT in scripture.
It always amazes me that people can vote for a heathen like obama and say they are the born again child of God that believe the Word of God.
I tried to answer JOHN’s questions , some personal….to only get blessed out by him. You may not like my opinion about a democrat and a born again child of God being in two different realms of thought, that’s great. Just do not say I’m just like the swaggarts. You do not know me and I do not know you. I can say this. You and John both want everyone to agree with everything you say and I am not like that. I must see/hear for myself.
Doris,
I base my comments on what YOU say. Of course I don’t know you personally. You are making definitive statements that are blatantly FALSE, because I KNOW many believers who are Democrats! And clearly, there are born-again people who voted for Obama, because 96% of all black voters voted for Mr. Obama! Do you actually believe that there are NO born-again believers in that population???
My statement that you think like the Swaggarts is a reasonable assessment based on many of the statements you make….Of course you think like them….or you wouldn’t defend them! Certainly, it is your right to think and say what you wish.
John and T.
It’s amazing how you will rail on the swaggarts(religon) but whoa nellie when someone says negative about obama…how evil is that?
Doris,
I have plenty of criticism for Mr. Obama…but it must be VALID if I want to be honest and fair and have any credibility. I think I have been very consistent throughout all of my comments to give a factual rationale on which I base my opinions. I don’t expect that everyone will agree with me, and I respect people who don’t agree with me as long as their opinion is based on fact.
If I sound ILL…it’s because I don’t like for people to mischaracterize what I’ve said.
Yes, those two issues were brought up yesterday…but they’re the only two sins I’ve ever heard you bring up. You’ve said more than once that you listen to the Swaggarts because you “like what they have to say about homosexuality and abortion”. I was just wondering why you’re so obsessed with those two particular sins…but don’t seem to be so concerned about other sins.
“I can’t help it that you have been exposed for VOTING for obama. I mean if I voted for him I certainly wouldn’t deny it.”
You’re just being needlessly rude and out of line in saying this. I’ve been exposed? What kind of smart-assed comment is that? I didn’t say whether or not that I voted for Obama or not…and quite frankly it’s none of your business or anyone’s who I voted for, unless I want to make it your business. That’s why that when you vote…that by law, it’s done in complete privacy.
“The prez. and Jimmy Swaggart are very similar or One would expect you to think so ..”
And your point is?
“My ilk …okay…so I am with some great Americans Scott Walker, Chuck Baldwin, Regan,Ben Carson. Shall I go on?”
No need to go on. You’ve said quite enough. Scott Walker seems to be a good man, Ben Carson certainly is. I could vote for either. Reagan was a good man in many ways and a good president…but I can’t help but wonder if you know that it’s a fact that many of his policy decisions were made with the aid of Nancy’s horoscope readings…. As for Chuck Baldwin: I saw that you asked about what I thought about your connection to him in another comment, so I’ll save my comments for now.
“I believe The Lord God Jehovah gives life. The life of the flesh is in the BLOOD.”
o.k. ….fine, but I have no idea what that has to do with anything we’re talking about. Seems like a random thought with no real purpose behind it.
“Romans chapter 1 for the SIN of homosexuality. I know it doesn’t use the word…but the Bible does describe the act. Right?”
I have no idea what you’re saying here…just as I had no idea what you meant by another comment you made yesterday, but failed to offer an explanation. I’m used to it, as it happens quite often.
John & Doris,
I think the reason those 2 issues are mentioned so often is because they have been in the forefront in terms of policy-making in our country. I believe that the church must be careful not to rail on the homosexual issue, or present homosexual sin as somehow worse than any other sin. Clearly, there is hypocrisy in the church concerning our claim that the Bible teaches that marriage is “one man and one woman for life!” We are adamant about the “one man, one woman” part, but completely ignore the “for life” part! Regardless of the Bible teaching that remarriage after divorce is adultery, Christians divorce and remarry all the time…and yet the Body of Christ accepts those living in adulterous relationships as living an authentic Christian life, and worthy of leadership in the church! Those same Christians would never grant that status to a homosexual couple living in a monogamous relationship. We can have compassion for heterosexuals who commit sin, but not homosexuals? Hmmmmmm!
T., I agree that the reason you mentioned is certainly true…to an extent. However, I believe that there are other reasons, such as: for heterosexuals, there is “yuck factor” involved that isn’t present with other sins. For example: my wife and I were watching a TV show one evening, and out of the blue…totally unexpected, with no warning…two women began kissing. My wife’s immediate reaction was to literally shudder…with an accompanying facial expression that you might see if someone who had just taken a big gulp of milk that had soured. Even for those heterosexuals who aren’t Christians…many people are repulsed by the very thought of same-sex…sex. Christians are rightly…even more repulsed because not only is this not natural, but they know that God sees it as a very serious sin. But if we consider our reaction to adultery…while we would certainly agree that it is a very serious sin as well, we don’t react the same…because once again, that “yuck factor” isn’t there. For a heterosexual who is a Christian…the very thought of homosexual acts is repulsive…but if that same person entertains thoughts of sex between a man and a woman…temptation, not repulsion comes into play.
So many times, I’ve seen Christians get expressively angry at the very mention of homosexuals…but you wouldn’t see those same people becoming angry with the mention of someone lying, stealing, or even committing adultery. Far too often, I believe that people are offended by homosexuality…not because it is a sin and an offence against God, but because it offends THEM.
Exactly right! Our sexuality is highly emotional! Therefore, we must be careful that we do not allow those feelings to get in the way of being compassionate and treating people with dignity and respect! The homosexuality issue is a very difficult one, especially for the church.
Yes we have had to stop watching tv because of the PUSH for homosexual agenda. they are trying to teach our children in school that they may not be the gender they are. They are of the spirit of confusion. It is truly insane. I should have known you are for it.
Oh…I see. So now I’ve sudden become “evil” again. lol I’m sure it’ll just be a short matter of time before you’ll be referring to me as a “devil” again.
An excellent assessment that I appreciate, and in large part agree with! I am truly NOT an Obama supporter…I just have no respect for people who want to bad-mouth him without any facts to support what they say and believe. You’re not one of those people, T.! You clearly articulated a reasonable argument for your opposition to the President.
Question: (and i assure you it’s not a trick question)…if given the option of absolutely any person eligible to be elected president for the coming term, who would you like to see go into office?
Hey listen…..I know all I need to know about Obama..This very day, the news has exposed that he has his people from america in Israel ..working against bb netanyahu being re elected, t
I have no idea if that’s true…but for all we know, that might be a good thing. Netanyahu isn’t the only Israeli running for office…or do you not realize this? Unless you can tell me why that Netanyahu is the better candidate for the Israeli people…why are you so supportive of him? I’d bet all the money that I have in the bank that if your life depended on it…you couldn’t tell me the main points of his platform. Right?
Benjamin Netanyahu served in the six day war 1967 and many other short wars.. He knows the land is not merely occupied by the jewish people, that it was given to the hebrews by God Almighty in the royal land grant named in Gen. 22. He will not stop building the settlement housing in the west bank . He is the head of the likuid party in Israel, they are center-right. Plus I just like him. He has guts and he is not afraid. You sound anti-semitic
Doris,
I am no Obama supporter…I did not vote for him, and I disagree with almost everything he says and does. But, I do believe in treating anyone unfairly or dishonestly. What you heard on the news is the fact that one of Mr. Obama’s campaign managers is in Israel working on the campaign of one of B. Netanyahu’s challengers, which is not an uncommon practice for political operatives. They often work on foreign campaigns during the “off-season” of American elections. That’s it….nothing sinister here! One loses credibility by making ignorant, uninformed statements. If you want to be persuasive, you must have your facts straight! The adage “you’re entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts” appears to apply here.
“You sound anti-Semetic”
And you sound like an idiot for making such an untrue and unfounded statement.
I see that you are well-versed in the Democrat talking points! My, my, my!!!
I pay no attention to the talking points of either party. I call it like I see it. I voted mostly Republican for literally decades, mostly because of “moral issues”. Then…I woke up one day to the fact that homosexuality and abortion aren’t the only moral issues in the world. I have plenty of negatives things to say about the Democrats, but I chose to save it…as the Christian church world is well versed on those talking points…but generally speaking, see little wrong with the Republican Party. I thought it was about time that a Christian give them their due fair of the criticism.
Morals CANNOT BE LEGISLATED. That’s the reason the politics since the Roe vs Wade consist of Abortion and Homosexuality to cause a divide which cannot be rectified.
Honestly, I have no idea what you are trying to express with that comment.
Thanks, Doris. I’m familiar to a point with Walker, but admit that I’m not thoroughly versed on his politics. Baldwin…I do know more about, but plan on looking into him further.
Scott Walker also got rid of government unions..he didn’t ban them, but no government wages. I am anti union.
Doris, When you have time, would you mind explaining your comment? I just don’t understand what you were saying. I’m a bit slow at times!
All I have to offer concerning unions is that they can be good or bad. They’re not inherently one or the other. It’s all situational.
Are you saying I am well verse or John is well versed?..
Doris, I asked T. a question that I’ll pose to you as well. If you could see any American that is eligible to run for the presidency be elected, who would that person be…and I’ll add, why? I’d love to hear your thoughts. And for what it’s worth, I’m not sure who that person would be for me. Something to ponder….!
The only person I can think of at the present time is Scott Walker or Chuck Baldwin. Scott Walker defunded planned parenthood in Wis. and Chuck because I know how he is on those moral issues and he is a Liberty minded individual . A nice person and a good moral christian man with a genius mind.
Thanks, Doris. I’m familiar to a point with Walker, but admit that I’m not thoroughly versed on his politics. Baldwin…I do know more about, but plan on looking into him further.
Doris, I just read the following quote by Chuck Baldwin.
“Unfortunately, it has been the Christian Right’s blind support for President Bush in particular and the Republican Party in general that has precipitated a glaring and perhaps fatal defect: the Christian Right cannot, or will not, honestly face the real danger confronting these United States. . . . On the whole, they fail to understand the issues that are critical to our nation’s—and their own—survival. . . . Sadly, this is what the Christian Right just doesn’t get: ninety percent of the time, it doesn’t matter to a tinker’s dam whether a Republican or Democrat wins the White House. . . . All the pro-life, pro-family, traditional-values, conservative talk is just that: talk. Republicans use conservative rhetoric the same way Democrats use liberal rhetoric. Neither party believes what they are telling their constituents. They merely say what constituents want to hear in order to get elected; after which, they set about to do what their elitist, globalist manipulators tell them to do”.
You might be interested to note that I agree with everything he said, with one exception. I’m not convinced that those he’s talking about do what they do because their “elitist globalist manipulators tell them” what to do. I don’t completely dismiss the concept, but I believe that politicians simply do what is most expedient for their political and financial success. This might involve being influenced by outside “manipulators’…but I don’t buy into the fact that there are these unseen, anti-Christ type, shadowy figures that are the puppet masters of the world…and our politicians are merely the puppets. I hear a lot of this type of talk from a variety of sources…but never anything that remotely approaches verifiable fact; just lots of conspiratorial speculation.
Well that’s good. He is a fine person. My husband and I really like Chuck and admire the fact that he left the Crossroads church he had after 35 years in Florida and moved to Montana. They meet in a hotel there in Kalispell, Montana. You should listen to some of his archived messages on his website http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com
He would make a fine president. However, I do not think he will run again.
Wow! How cynical!
Wouldn’t you agree that it’s disturbing that out of the hundreds of millions of American that are eligible to run for the Presidency, that we find it difficult, if not impossible to come up with even a hand full of acceptable candidates?
It’s still too early for a decision, but there are several I really like….A refreshing change would be a non-political figure, such as Dr. Ben Carson! He’s brilliant, has common sense and WISDOM, which is much more important than intelligence, is accomplished outside of politics. I’ve read his books, seen the movie based on the book about his life! He is a believer and can clearly articulate orthodox Christian beliefs, as well as bedrock American values! His life is a living example of what the “American dream” looks like! And by the way, has personal charisma that is not superficial. He appears to be extremely comfortable with himself, knows who he is, where he’s come from, and the direction he wants to go, and where he’d like to move the country. I would be proud to support him!
I also prefer governors , and especially governors who have been successful in the private sector. They have executive experience. I won’t ever vote for a person who has spent their whole life in elected office!! These people have absolutely no clue about the economy.
I like Scott Walker of Wisconsin, Mike Huckabee of Arkansas, Nikki Haley of South Carolina, Susanna Martinez of New Mexico, Jeb Bush of Florida, John Kashic of Ohio, Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire, and Rand Paul of Kentucky! That’s a long list, but I’m thrilled the Republicans have such a deep bench!
While I certainly agree with John that neither party is the “Christian” party or the party of God, the party platform concerning social issues is more reflective of mainstream Christian values. However, the social issues are not the only issues, or the most important in every election. I am a fiscal conservative and I believe smaller government is most effective, efficient, less abusive and less corrupt! Big government loves big corporations and vice versa! This is called crony capitalism!
Concerning Islamic extremism, I believe this country…even the entire world is at high risk for terrorist attacks by ISLAMIC extremists! This is a war of ideology…and the ideology comes from the religion of Islam…not Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, but ISLAM! It is blatantly obvious to any reasonable person that not every Muslim is a killer, terrorist, or extremist! It is not necessary to purge our language of accurately descriptive terms! It is going to either be up to MODERATE MUSLIMS to fight this perversion of their faith, OR non-Muslims are going to have to stop them. Moderate Muslims have been deafeningly silent concerning Islamofacists/terrorists! I can guarantee that if a sect of Christianity were murdering innocent civilians while shouting “Praise be to Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ ” there would be massive protests, severe denunciations, arrest and/or annihilation of these terrorists!
Unfortunately, we have absolutely no idea what Obama’s motivation is for how he is behaving concerning this issue. So, he leaves the public to guessing…and worrying! I suspect he is very sympathetic to Islam, spending much of his early life in a Muslim country, and the influence of his father. He may not practice the Muslim faith (at least in public) but he sure is sympathetic toward Islam. He claims to be a Christian, but it’s obvious by his words that he cannot articulate what the gospel is, what the atonement means, etc. My heart sinks every time I hear the speeches he gave to Muslim countries on his “apology tour” shortly after his election! I find it absolutely stunning…appalling that an American president would go abroad and speak of his country and countrymen as the evil, hateful ones..as if WE DESERVED 9/11! There has been a great deal of dishonest, revisionist history going on in the minds of liberal democrats…a convenient loos of memory concerning Iraq and the threat of terrorism via weapons of mass destruction. Throughout Bill Clinton’s presidency, the US suffered several acts of terrorism that went either unanswered or dealt with lightly. All the while Clinton was distracted with his dalliance with young women, the lawsuits against him for sexual harrassment, impeachment etc., the terrorists were planning and plotting 9/11. I can’t help but wonder if he had his full attention to his job, there might have been a different outcome. We can’t know for sure, but over those years, the WORLD, via the U.N. were filing resolution after resolution at Sadam to allow inspectors in to verify WMD! The whole WORLD believed he had them, and KNEW that he had used them. Every DEMOCRAT testified on the floor of both houses, most were in FAVOR of the authorization of force! It’s ironic how the Bush haters claim Bush to be ignorant, a “C” student, stupid, incompetent, etc, and at the same time, claim he deceived and manipulated the entire world by lying and covering up concerning WMD!! So, which is it? George Bush has a powerful testimony as a believer. When he speaks of faith, you know he’s authentic because it rings true. He articulates what the gospel is and how it changed his heart. To make accusations of “war criminal” or that he would intentionally, for selfish, personal reasons, cause the deaths of our men and women and those of Iraq is downright evil…despicable!
Evil cannot be reasoned with! There is nothing we have done to deserve the brutality of homicide bombers and beheadings! Evil must be eliminated. Period!
America is not perfect. God is not on our siDE exclusively! But isolation and appeasement NEVER work when it comes to evil, immoral, aggressive brutality! WWII bears that out!
I met Dr. Ben Carson in person. He was in Kalispell ,Montana and in Kingsport. I listened intently to his speeches and He is very clear that he is for GUN CONTROL. He wants extensive Phsycological testing before a person can buy a gun. That is probably , as I’m sure you remember, his mother had deep depression problems and wanted to commit suicide. I do believe that stays with him . He would make a great Surgeon General , or Sec. of State. Not President.
He’s far to nice hahaha. JEB BUSH NOOOOOOO LORD
Mike Huckabee is not electable in my opinion. I like John
Doris, You said, “I like John”. John who? Surely you’re not talking about me! lol 😉
You see it as cynical, I see it as spot-on….and this coming from someone who wouldn’t think of voting for Chuck. You obviously wouldn’t describe your comments about Obama as being cynical…but somehow it’s cynicism when the criticism is toward men you admire and whose politics you agree with? Am I missing something here?
John
I wrote Donnie Swaggart an email today and asked him for scripture for an answer he gave a call in from a woman on F and F concerning children NOT of the age of accountability (innocent) .going in the Rapture..He had given this for an answer. If they are the children of Saved parents they will go in the rapture.. I have never heard anyone say that before. I want to hear his answer. I called in and asked about the two witnesses in Revelation.. Elijah and Moses..he said it’s Enoch and Elijah. But when did enoch turn the water to blood ? That was my question . He said well if you want to believe what you believe then go ahead hahaha !
Doris, If you don’t mind my asking, how did you become acquainted with Chuck Baldwin…and what led you to travel all the way to Montana to meet with him?
I heard a radio interview when Chuck Baldwin was running for office. I listened to ALL of his sermons and we just decided to go to Montana to Kalispell to meet he and his wife and to meet the Fellowship.
I can’t reply to some of your comments or questions the reply option isn’t there. I said I like John. I meant, CHUCK hahaha
About our trip to Montana…We had had a bad experience when my husband was a deacon in a Southern Baptist Church. It was started as a Church not a Corporation(It was a non 501c3) Then when a preacher came as the pastor and wanted his annuity as a SB he wanted to incorporate the Church and make it a 501c3. My husband came up against that move and we suffered the wrath of God. We ended up leaving abruptly and our hearts were broken. When I heard Chuck talking about the preachers today loving money to the point of NOT PREACHING THE issues of today , as Martin Luther would say..those points that at the moment the devil is raging.The preacher/pastors must choose between God and Money…love one and hate the other or hate one and love the other .
It wall begin to make sense to me as to what had really happened to us and we were persecuted …by the pastor and deacons of the church we left. Hope that explains a little.
It was a horrible time in our lives, but we wouldn’t take anything for the learning experience …we wear what happened as a badge of honor.
You never reply to your questions I answer like HOW did we end up going to Montana to meet with Chuck Baldwin. The story I told you about what happened to us in a SBChurch….. soooooo
may I ask you …what do you think?
Doris, I just found your reply to T.’s comment, and as I was mentioned as well, I’m going to respond.
As to your rambling about your having watched the Swaggarts yesterday…as is often the case as it pertains to your comments, I have no idea what all of how that had anything to do with what we were discussing.
You go on to say:
“It always amazes me that people can vote for a heathen like obama and say they are the born again child of God that believe the Word of God”.
As T. pointed out, your declaration that no Democrat can be a Christian is not try, and I would add that your belief is one of the most ignorant and errant beliefs that I’ve ever heard a Christian express.
“I tried to answer JOHN’s questions , some personal….to only get blessed out by him.”
You start the day with rude accusations that did not reflect what I said…and then when I refuse to lay down and give you a pass, you accuse me of “blessing you out”. What happened, Doris…is that you flat out lied about what I said, I confronted you, and now you’re playing the victim.
“Just do not say I’m just like the swaggarts. You do not know me and I do not know you”
What a hypocritical statement. You try to chastise T. for saying you think like the Swaggerts…saying that we “don’t know you”…yet you have the arrogance and the audacity to judge my very salvation based on who you ASSUME that I voted for?
.
“You and John both want everyone to agree with everything you say and I am not like that. I must see/hear for myself”
Talk about the kettle calling the pot black! I would agree with one thing: you MUST see/hear for yourself…because God knows you don’t listen to anyone else…about ANYTHING.
As you know, I reached out to you with an olive branch after we had a few heated exchanges early on. You seemed to graciously accept…and we’ve had several good conversations over the past several days. But it seems that due to the fact that T. and I haven’t agreed right down the line with everything you’ve said the past day or so, you’re right back to pronouncing us as “evil”…and even making judgments about my salvation…based on your perception of my voting record. For a person who claims they don’t judge…you surely do a lot of judging, Doris! And then, of course…you’ve pronounced in God-like fashion that “there are no good Muslims”…and.that “Democrats can’t be Christians”. I’m just wondering, Doris. Who will be next on your list of who can’t be good…who can’t be saved? Will it be the Baptists tomorrow, the Methodists on Sunday, and maybe the Presyterians on Monday?
And one more question: who appointed you as God, Doris?
While you’ve so much as pronounced me as lost and headed straight for hell…and if T. disagrees with you one more time, she might receive the same pronouncement from you…I don’t feel that I’m in the position to judge your eternal salvation, or lack thereof. But I am in the position to point out to you yet again, that you’re full of rebellion, arrogance, and regardless of your insistence that you can “hold your own” concerning an understanding of the scriptures, many things that you’ve said over the course of the past few weeks prove that you are spiritually ignorant . Anyone who could declare as though it were truth…that Democrats cannot be Christians, is ignorant of the scriptures on a breathtakingly deep level.
I won’t be speaking with you any further, Doris. I made a sincere effort to mend things with you because I was, and am concerned for you. But it’s become all too apparent that your stubborn, narrow-minded views prohibit you from serious consideration of anything that is foreign to what you’re used to hearing. You’re not reasonable, you’re not logical…and therefore attempting to have a reasonable, logical discussion with you just isn’t going to happen.
I had planned on honoring your request to comment on your association with Chuck Baldwin and the circumstances that led you to make the trip to Montana. But really, Doris…why should I make the effort? If I were to be in lock-step with everything you believe to be true about Baldwin…then you’d suddenly be my best friend! But if I told you everything that I actually think about the man…then I’d just be “the devil” again! You only want to know the truth…if it agrees with what YOU perceive to be the truth. I’d bet the bank that you’ve never began any investigation/research concerning the Swaggarts (as I urged you to)…and that’s fine, if you’re satisfied with just thinking what you think…with no curiosity or concern for the facts. And I feel just as certain that when it comes to Baldwin…that you haven’t read anything about him that doesn’t agree with your preconceived notion of who he is and what he stands for. You’ve expressed many times that you truly don’t care what anyone else has to say about anyone or anything! You proudly proclaim that you have to “see and hear for yourself!’. Well…go for it,Doris! This is the last thing you’ll be hearing from me! I have better things to do with my time than to spend it on someone whose is so totally close-minded and unteachable as you.
I feel all but certain that I’m wasting my time…but in parting, a very brief assessment of Chuck Baldwin.
I spent several hours last night reading anything and everything that I could find on him…and I would classify him as “nut-job”, racist, extremist, potential domestic terrorist”…who cloaks himself in the flag, quotes all the right scriptures to give the impression that he’s just a Bible-believing, patriot…but in reality, he’s bunkered down in Montana in an area that is fast filling with other extremist, anti-government crazies…and is leading gullible people such as yourself into a cult of the worst kind.
A bit of quick research will easily lead you to the names of the company that he keeps…and it’s a list that is as scary as any list of Islamic terrorists you could find. In fact, this country has more to fear from people like Chuck Baldwin than we’ll ever have to fear from any foreign terrorists. This guy has citizenship, he’s smart enough to know what to say and what not to…and he’s preparing for an armed insurrection against the United States of America. This guy is more dangerous than a three year old with a loaded, cocked gun in his hand. This man is no patriot. He’s a hate-filled traitor who preys on people who are scared, desperate, and ignorant. This so-called Christian minister is no minister at all. He’s not interested in building God’s kingdom. He’s interested in building a worldly kingdom in the name of God. He’s nothing less than a blasphemer…and if you buy into his deception, ignoring the warning I’m now giving you, you’ll be as responsible for his sin as he is.
“ I must see/hear for myself.”
When I was a kid and refusing to take my parents advice, I can still hear my mother saying to me, “Go on hard-head! You’ll just have to learn the hard way! “ When it comes to your Chuck Baldwin connection…I hope that you don’t take that route. This man is on a path leading to destruction, and he’ll take you along for the ride…if you let him. I pray better things for you and your husband.
Hopefully you can read past the typos and poor spacing. Being angry can make one sloppy.
“Exactly right! Our sexuality is highly emotional! Therefore, we must be careful that we do not allow those feelings to get in the way of being compassionate and treating people with dignity and respect! The homosexuality issue is a very difficult one, especially for the church.”
Thank you, T. I could not agree more.
Doris, You wrote:
“Yes we have had to stop watching tv because of the PUSH for homosexual agenda. they are trying to teach our children in school that they may not be the gender they are. They are of the spirit of confusion. It is truly insane. I should have known you are for it.”
I don’t know if that comment was made for me, or T., or both…but you really need to stop lying. I clearly stated that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin….and so is lying, Doris…and you really need to stop.
I find it very interesting that communication completely breaks down when the sin of homosexuality is the issue. It’s not the person, Jesus died for the person. You are a little too sensitive on this one issue.
What about killing babies in the Womb. You haven’t mentioned that.
Homosexuality isn’t the issue…your persistent lying by misrepresenting what people say IS THE ISSUE.
Hey John it’s all there for the world to read. Whatever. You are always right.
Everyone with a grain of common sense knows that it’s wrong for homosexuality to be praised like obama does. NOW IS THAT TRUE?
Is there an agenda to try and brainwash our children to think they are homosexuals or transgender? IF NOT …Why do you believe NOT.
Rome’s final phase was being given over to homosexuality… ALSO..Catholics are not Christians. In the Spanish inquisition they killed jews and christians in the iron lady . IS THAT A LIE? NO it’s not
This will be my last attempt to talk with you like a reasonable person…though you’re clearly not. I will clearly state for you that I believe that homosexuality is a sin. What is it that you’re not hearing …though I’ve stated this three times now?
I’m seriously beginning to believe that you have a mental impairment. It would explain a lot. End of our conversation…period, Doris.
Thanks …you are so kind. Maybe I didn’t get the response/responses you are speaking of so I do not know for sure what Exactly you are talking about.
If I have misunderstood you , I apologize. However, I do not want to continue this banter. All you seem to do well is put ME down.
I have no impairment as you suggest. I am mad because of the hidden agenda to subvert our children in this country. It’s everywhere. Movies, tv, commercials. If you were a young mother of young children maybe you would be more sensitive to my issue with these problems which I believe homosexuals/homosexuality has has brought upon this country . The problems it has caused with the generation coming up at the present time with their lack of morals is a type of judgement. OK now let me have it.
“I have no impairment as you suggest. I am mad because of the hidden agenda to subvert our children in this country. It’s everywhere. Movies, tv, commercials. If you were a young mother of young children maybe you would be more sensitive to my issue with these problems which I believe homosexuals/homosexuality has has brought upon this country . The problems it has caused with the generation coming up at the present time with their lack of morals is a type of judgement”
That’s fine that you’re mad…what isn’t fine is that you take it out on me and others by wrongly putting words in our mouths and twisting what we’ve said so that you hear what you want to hear.
“OK now let me have it.”
No. I have nothing more to say to you.
Great!!!!
Wow, Doris!
Some Catholics are “born-again” christians, and some aren’t! Just as…some Pentecostals are, and some aren’t….Pick your denomination! This is a classic Swaggart et.al. belief (that Catholics aren’t “saved”….or basically anyone who doesn’t believe exactly as they do)!
I appeal to you, Doris, for the sake of the gospel, and the reputation and influence of Christianity in our country, PLEASE, stop making these ignorant, biased and unloving blanket statements about other people….people with whom you disagree or don’t understand. This is why I so fervently denounce SBN and JSM….because, we have an obligation to call a brother or sister out for conduct such as this. Just as we wish that decent, law-abiding Muslims would denounce those who pervert their faith.
The scriptures teach that when a brother or sister is off-track, we are to go to them privately, or one on one, with humility and love, and try to get them to correct their behavior. If they refuse, take two or three witnesses and try again. If that fails, we are to cease fellowship until that person repents and desires to be restored. Certainly, social media isn’t “private.” What we say and write reveals who WE are. Your words are revealing, and the rebuke and correction by two of us clearly reveals our position. I guess the readers will have to decide for themselves!
Most Catholics will actually say, “I am not a born again Christian, but I am a Christian. Alot of the “christians” are on fox news as employees. NOT ALL Catholics must most are not born again.
I stand by it ..They killed Christians and jews during the spanish inquisition. Isis has nothing on the catholics
Doris,
You mean “we,” don’t you?? The only Christian church WAS the Catholic Church in the 1400’s! Yes, Christianity has some ugly skeletons in the closet. HOWEVER, we’ve proven to correct ourselves, as did Martin Luther during the Reformation! To hold the modern Catholic church, actually individual Catholics responsible for the acts committed 700 years ago is like holding all present-day white people responsible for slavery and the discrimination of blacks!
Are you aware of how extremist your views are?? You appear to not be well educated, so for your sake, do some reading! Get informed. I included a long reading list in one of my earlier posts! I think you would benefit greatly if you’ll take the time!
No wonder there hadn’t been any comments on this website for approximately a yr. or so. You and John tag team people that have even the lest opposing views to your.
Have you ever read about the spanish inquisition …the Iron lady …the contraption they used to killed CHRISTANS and JEWS in if they wouldn’t convert to be a Catholic.
You and John hate Jimmy Swaggart. Ha Well I don’t hate Jimmy Swaggart. He has been forgiven and as for the Bible you quoted about helping your brother back on the path if they fall. I quoted that to you many comments ago. It’s for sure that the world wouldn’t let Jimmy Swaggart preach on tv today. They are running those old crusades because they can..they have their own network. Ha.
The only thing is , it’s like he’s preaching the issues of TODAY instead of the 80’s
You and John can have your little website back to patrol and jump anyone that will give the swaggarts the time of day.
BTW I do not attempt to write a book…with perfect grammar and every jot and tittle in place. It’s like you and John compete with one another on how longgggggg your comments can be and how perfect.
Please . I have been treated with disrespect from the first comment I made. John asked me to start commenting to him. He has asked me several personal questions, which I have answered..It was when we got on obama and politics that he went coo coo. He is what kills me more than anything. A double minded man …unstable in all his ways ..and dear you are a lonely little woman that works while she listens to Son LIFE BROADCASTING …and says she watching Bryan Haney’s technique in playing the piano. Rots of Ruck dear. I believe he has you beat on the piano. I’m sure he does.
“Some Catholics are “born-again” christians, and some aren’t!”
T., your having said this reminded me of a recent experience that my wife and I shared. We have a friend who is an opera singer, and she is often invited to sing in various church choirs in our city. She invited us to attend a Christmas Eve service at St. Paul’s Episcopal Church here in Chattanooga, where she would be singing. My wife had attended Episcopal services in the past, as her father was raised in that church, but this was a first for me. Having attended Catholic and Lutheran services, I wasn’t totally unprepared for how Episcopal services are conducted, but there were many aspects that I was unfamiliar with.
Along with the choir, there were soloists, a violinist, a cellist, and a brass quartet that played, along with an organist playing on a 150 year old pipe organ. The music and the singing was breathtaking and inspirational. But beyond the music, the singing, and the other aspects of the service…there was something else that we observed that caught our attention.
We arrived at the church before anyone else and waited for close to our hour before the service started. Just as the music began, there was a family that came in and seated themselves in the pews directly in front of us. There was a mother and father who appeared to be in their mid to late forties, several children, ranging from perhaps, late twenties to preteen age…and some of the older children appeared to have dates accompanying them. Of all the family, the mother was the only one that turned to us and greeted us warmly. I have no way of knowing for sure, but in talking after the service, we felt that the family were probably members of the church, as they just seemed to have a comfort level that led us to believe this to be the case. But anyway…though we didn’t talk about it until later, it seems that both my wife and i noticed the fervency of this woman when she prayed. Not to say that others in her family were necessarily “less spiritual” than her…but the mother just exuded a sense of sincerity in her faith that palpable. Just watching her worship…drew us into deeper worship.
Beyond the woman simply being a blessing to us that night, we agreed that it reminded us that though we might not sing from the same hymnals, that our form of worship might be different, and our doctrinal beliefs might not be perfectly aligned…that we profess the same Christ, and that in this, we are all His children. It reminded us of how sweet it indeed is…when brethren worship together in love and unity. It reminded us that the true church is not bound by buildings and creeds and all of the superfluous minutia we too often assign to our definition of the faith…but that in reality, God could not care less about, and has no part in.
Amen, brother! Couldn’t agree more! I believe that God, as revealed in Jesus, is NOT looking for any little reason to keep us out….He’s looking for any little reason to accept us, to love us, and to bring us into fellowship with Himself! He doesn’t require perfect doctrine (which likely no one can claim), or believing the “right way” (a line the Swaggarts constantly use). He just wants us to say YES to His Grace provided through Jesus Christ! We are all unique individuals because God created us that way! We vary in worship in style, culture, nationality, denomination, personality, etc.There is beauty in every Church tradition! Whether the Swaggarts know it or not, the liturgy, music, etc. of today is not what it was centuries ago! The Swaggarts speak about the NT church of 2000 years ago in terminology that indicates that it was run in style, music, preaching, etc. just like the Swaggarts do it today! It’s hilarious! Swaggart has made the statement that Lucifer was “in charge of the worship music and the choirs in heaven” before he was cast out! My, my, my….the ignorance is astounding….and they are clueless!
The Body of Christ is diverse! And Jesus said “By THIS shall all men KNOW that you are MY Disciples, that you have LOVE one for another!” And Jesus’ prayer that “we would be ONE, and the Father and I are one” is a prayer that we should strive to fulfill! This is why it’s important for all Christians to emphasize our orthodox creeds and confessionals….that we would be ONE as the Godhead is one! As far as the non-essentials go, i.e style, culture, traditions personal behavior, there is NO CONDEMNATION for those in Christ Jesus, and ALL things are lawful, though not all expedient. So drinking alcohol, movie/entertainment choices, tattoo’s etc. are up to each individual or tradition as they see fit! So, let’s love one another as Christ as loved us!
T., I think you know how much respect that I have for you. I see you as a very mature and sincere woman in the faith and consider you my sister. I would hope that you are in agreement that Doris has spurned every attempt we’ve made to bring correction and has now lowered herself to offering nothing but rude and hateful abuse toward us, I think it is obvious that the time has come to end our communication with her.
“If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain”. – I Timothy 6:3-5
Pope Francis has met with a transgender woman…..NOW A MAN. Pushing the homosexual agenda …to destroy the children.
Obama will not meet with Netanyahu but does meet with the Muslim Brotherhood.
January 31,2015 …..He’s a fine christian man man and a genius.
You appear to have NO compassion for anyone you don’t understand! Have you forgotten that Jesus met with “sinners” all the time…and, as we know, was highly criticized for it by the religious elites! It is highly unfair to attribute evil motives toward someone when you can’t possibly know for sure! Extremists on the left or the right are guilty of this, and it’s completely damaging to public discourse! Christianity is about TRUTH….Jesus IS truth! We are to worship God in spirit and in truth. Our behavior toward others IS worship! God is not glorified when we fail to speak truth! The truth is that you discredit yourself, and lose the ability to be persuasive! Doris, I hope you will ponder what has been said here! It’s fruitless to go further with you.
Woe to unto him that offends a little child …It is better him that a millstone be tied around his neck and he thrown into the deepest part of the ocean. (paraphrased)
The children are at stake you dumb dumb.
I’m not lying …It’s obvious that you think it’s fine for alternative lifestyles..But OH LORD don’t listen to the swaggart’s ..You really do have a problem with the swaggarts.
“”If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16″But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17″If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.…” – Matthew 18:15-17
The Swaggarts are having a BibleThon next week You would do well to invest in a KJV BIBLE ..THE NLV is of Satan. Throw it in the trash.
Doris, Doris, Doris….
So I see you’re buying into another bit of Swaggart/SBN incredible ignorance!!
The KJV is an ENGLISH translation! Do you actually believe that the English-speaking people are the only people who possess an accurate translation of scripture??? What about Spanish-speaking people? Portuguese? German? Chinese? Those Bible translations aren’t King James!! Yikes!
Fundamentalism is alive and well at JSM,SBN. These people talk about the bondage of sin, and freedom in Christ, but cannot see how deep and dark their own bondage is! Their narrow-minded, critical, fault-finding behavior is astounding!! The irony is they can’t see it!!
Wake up!! I’m convinced now, more than ever, that they are their own worst enemy! Their wacky beliefs are extremely unattractive to anyone outside of an ignorant, fundamentalist religious background! They think they’re “free” because they shout, run around, dance in church. But at home, in everyday life, where they think there’s something “wrong” with anything and everything, it’s got to be an exhausting, depressing existence! I speak from personal experience here…I spent the first 16 years of my life in a church like FWC! Thank God, my entire family got out, most everyone moved on, and that church doesn’t exist anymore! SBN is headed in that direction.
“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” – Romans 16:17
2 Timothy 3:12 All those that live Godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution
“A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.” – Proverbs 17:10
Proverbs 1:7 King James Version…The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, BUT FOOLS HATE INSTRUCTION /This is for you John
Let him which contacts mediums be accursed. Spiritwatch is witchie
The Swaggarts should sue this website.
For those who might be interested in taking a closer look at the teachings of Jimmy Swaggart, I would encourage you to take a look at the following article. (I would provide a link, but since the forum is not being closely moderated at present, and comments in which links are inserted a “hold”…I would suggest that you simply Google the articles title)
‘Jimmy Swaggart’s Perverted Gospel: The Expositor’s Study Bible’
Messages
by
William Cook
Bruce Hallman
Karen Pansler-Lam, J.D.
The following articles offers a clear, detailed, Bible-based argument that points to Swaggart’s ongoing need for true repentance for past and present sin. This is a long article, but well worthy of an investment of time and consideration. A simple search should lead you to the articles, but should you have problems finding, it, please let me know!
“Why Jimmy Swaggart Still Needs To Repent
By Rev. Rafael Martinez, Director, Spiritwatch Ministries
No one visits this website. Visit endtimeheadlines.org …Fruitloops contain Round Up ready Corn GMO…
For those with questions about Swaggart’s “Message of the Cross” …here is another excellent article that will enlighten you as to the error of this “other gospel”.
“Jimmy Swaggart’s “Message Of The Cross” Illuminated”
By Rev. Rafael Martinez, Director, Spiritwatch Ministries
The following article details the Swaggart’s dominionist teachings and associations.
“The Swaggarts – Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing”
(watchman1948.wordpress.com/2011/06/221/)
Quote of the Day!
“No one is arguing with the true Word of God, neither is anyone doubting that the Lord still speaks today. Disagreeing with Jimmy Swaggart is not tantamount to disagreeing with the Lord– the mere suggestion is ludicrous and shows that you have set this man up as an idol in your heart.’ -Mishel
Why don’t you put the letter YOU say you received from the swaggarts where they threatened to sue you in the past?
You have no idea what I truly believe. I could be playing devil’s advocate . You people are the JUDGE on this lil website. You need to repent and be born again.
I had overlooked an article that Mishel wrote entitled :
“Jimmy and Frances Swaggart- A Study in Duplicity”
The following are direct quotes from the lips of Jimmy Swaggart, spoken in regard to two ministers that he had been instrumental in exposing for their sexual sin, Marvin Gorman & Jim Bakker. These are documented quotes from a letter that Swaggart wrote…not gossip, not hersay.
“It is being strongly advocated in some Pentecostal and Charismatic circles today that when a pastor or an evangelist commits an immoral act, he is to be forgiven and allowed to remain in his position of leadership. My brother, if that would be the case, it would be tantamount to destruction for the movement.” – Jimmy Swaggart
“It is being strongly advocated in some Pentecostal and Charismatic circles today that when a pastor or an evangelist commits an immoral act, he is to be forgiven and allowed to remain in his position of leadership. My brother, if that would be the case, it would be tantamount to destruction for the movement.” – Jimmy Swaggart
“If a man in a bank is caught stealing and someone outside the bank finds it out, are you telling me that he should just go to the brother and tell him to quite stealing, and say nothing to the bank officers about it?” – Jimmy Swaggart
“The minister of the Gospel is in a very responsible position, and he is placed there by God. He is to set the example of righteousness. And if that example is not set, it will destroy the spiritual fabric of the church. And to allow a preacher of the Gospel, when he is caught beyond the shadow of a doubt committing an immoral act and then be allowed to remain in his position as pastor (or whatever), would be the most gross stupidity.” – Jimmy Swaggart
This has to be the most damning piece of irony imaginable! Swaggart himself…speaking of the destructive nature of allowing ministers caught red-handed in gross sin to not only remain unexposed, but to be allowed to remain in the pulpit AFTER being exposed. I can’t imagine how someone could be more hypocritical. Obviously, Swaggart believes that there are one set of rules for him…and another for everyone else! For those who doubt the validity of the accusations made against Swaggart by the vast multitudes…forget what they have to say if you must! Swaggart’s own words convict him.
Incredible examples! However, not that surprising when one realizes that he is seeing prostitutes all the while preaching those “classic”crusades in the 1980’s! It is incredible hubris!! I would hate to be in Swaggarts shoes when he stands before God!!
Every Swaggart supporter I’ve ever spoken with (and there have been many), they all resemble Doris. It gives me hope that they represent a small minority of the population!
T., Didn’t you know that the King James Version was the one that the apostle Paul used…and that only Judas Iscariot used the NLV? 😉
hehehe!
The road to hell is wide and many shall enter. the road to heaven is narrow and few shall enter.
You and John are so high-minded …You are typical of the seeker friendly 501c3 churches/corporations today. I bet you have Rock Bands to draw the youth. With your attitude of superiority you would have to use a trick to get them in.
As for the New Living Translation which John uses …I guess he can’t understand the real Word. KJV..
AS FAR AS THE Catholics and Pope Francis…The priest have raped many,many little boys. They bought their way out of that..now poppy is seeing transgenders behind closed doors.
You may think God loves you more that he loves the swaggarts ..But he doesn’t ..He may just be spewwing you out of his mouth as we speak. Luke War. Be Cold ,or Be Hot.
I know they are offending the little ones that believe in Jesus and Jesus said it is better for them that a MILLSTONE be tied around their neck and they be thrown into the deepest part of the ocean.
One last thing, Doris,
I know you said that you were delivered instantly from addiction when you received Christ, however the anger, resentment, lashing out, critical behavior you demonstrate IS a sign of addictive behavior. Have you ever heard the term “dry drunk?” Pretty self explanatory….it’s behaving as if under the influence of substances. The damage to your life and to others can be just as bad as when drinking/using. Since you’ve never had any treatment, you are likely unfamiliar with recovery and what that looks like. My suspicion is that those who claim these “instant” healings, may in fact, be just as “sick” as before…because being sober in recovery means a “transformation”is taking place. The Bible teaches this as well! We aren’t completely transformed into perfect, mature Christians the moment we get “saved!” The Bible doesn’t teach that. We are continually being transformed, maturing in our faith and character, by the renewing of our minds. This is an ongoing process! Your situation is the perfect example of the false and misleading teaching based on erroneous interpretation of scripture. I encourage you to find a celebrate recovery program, or Overcomes Anonymous, and AA orNA groups. The 12 steps are based in scripture! Bill W. And Dr. BOB, the founders of AA were catholic christians, and this program, which I believe is Holy Spirit inspired, is based completely on Biblical principles. AA is the most successful program for the recovery of alcoholism in the WORLD!! Millions have found sobriery and live successful, overcoming lives since this program was developed! There was NO successful treatment available prior to this! The Swaggarts et.al.are COMPLETELY IGNORANT concerning this! Their claims are laughable, because millions of people’s lives are living proof that what they claim is untrue!!
I hope you will check it out. By not doing so, you are being willfully ignorant (as the Swaggarts are)! God does not honor that because HE IS TRUTH. Anything that is true IS GOD’S TRUTH! (A philosophical statement, if you care to ponder it) 🙂
You are so high-minded. Jesus set me and my husband free. We have a 27 year old daughter that saw us as a 4yr old instantly delivered and her life changed as well even at 4 her home life was at peace. She has a family of her own and has never drank or smoked pot and you probably do not believe that either. It’s true. We have a wonder life and are blessed beyond measure.
I do not need, nor do I want AA ,you need that I do not and neither does my husband. We are a successful couple and have been married to each other for many years, no divorces. No blended families. My parents were never divorced and neither were my husbands ..We are blessed.
You can say alot of things about me which you have, but I believe I would stop short when it comes to being critical of our testimony. When you are critical of that you are being critical of Jesus and doubting his power. He didn’t give suggest AA he instantly healed and set free in the BIBLE days..
Isn’t it good to just come here and laugh for a change! 🙂 One thing that I’ll give Doris credit for is reminding of how glad I am that I’m not entangled with all of that pseudo-religious, life-draining, joy-draining dribble that she seems to enjoy wallowing in so much!
Wahahaha. You have no idea what you are talking about. Go take a nap
Doris, People might accuse you of many things…but one thing you could never be accused of is being an intellectual!
You’re such a warm and intellectually stimulating human being, Doris!
Thank the Lord you approve….that’s all that matters to me is that JOHN is pleased. NOT
Doris, You may be free of alcohol/drug addiction…but you’re addicted to (as T. well-characterized it) “willful ignorance”, and forced to choose between the two…I’d take the alcohol/ drug addiction any day.
To be certain that you understand…while you certainly come across as uneducated, lack of education isn’t the real problem with you. Some of the smartest, wisest, and most spiritual people I’ve ever known have had little formal education. Your problem is ignorance…and the fact that you’re proud of it. Add to this, the fact that you’re one of the most vile, mean-spirited, hypocritical, and downright foul individuals I’ve ever had the misfortune of talking to…and it makes perfect sense that you have your head up the butts of the Swaggarts, for as T. has pointed out several times…you’re just like them.
T. and I will be talking privately from this point forward, we will not be talking to you any further. While I feel sure that upon reading this, you’ll go into another one of your disjointed, nonsensical rants …and that’s good. Because anyone who will happen across this blog in the future will read your childish, self-righteous goofiness, and they’ll get to witness for themselves, what a so-called “child of God” sounds like when they’ve been indoctrinated with religious bullshit for the majority of their adult lives. Hopefully at some point you’ll wake up…but at present, you’re simply the most despicable human being that I’ve ever met. I’ve known drug addicted street whores and aids infected homosexuals that I have more respect for than you. I see nothing that remotely resembles the love of Christ in anything you’ve said for the past few weeks. You bring nothing but disrepute onto the name of Christ and to His church. You’re a shame to the shed blood of the Savior and I will have nothing more to do with you.
“…deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus”. – I Corinthians 5: 5
That’s a very mean thing to say to a child of the living God(Jesus). I really couldn’t care less what you think. You remind me of the Pharisees that dogged Jesus. God help anyone that disagrees with you about JIMMY SWAGGART.
You live a world of hating Jimmy Swaggart. I feel sorry for you. I am a very happy and joyful saved woman. NO NOT PEFECT like you. But saved. You will reap talking to me that way. I have never had anyone to be that mean to me in my life. Thank the Lord that I have been sheltered from you and you kind. I feel sorry for your wife. Atleast she has the normal instinct when homosexuals kiss on tv.
Do not every write another comment and head it my way. You are a cruel old man . You have no idea what I am really like . I LIKE ALL THE SWAGGARTS ….THEY ARE A CREDIT TO YOU AND YOUR KIND.
I’m sure you’ve noticed that Doris has NOTHING to say about the Swaggart’s quotes Mishel provided. Doris says that she works in the legal field…well, the best trial lawyer on the planet couldn’t defend Swaggart against his own words! lol
“Every Swaggart supporter I’ve ever spoken with (and there have been many), they all resemble Doris. It gives me hope that they represent a small minority of the population!”
The pathetic thing is that while these folks seem to feel that they’re at the center of the spiritual universe and everything revolves around them and their version of the gospel, the truth is that they represent a small fraction of 1% of the Christian church. (thankfully)
Yes! Fair-minded people don’t paint all Christians or all conservatives or all Republicans (or all Democrats or progressives) with the same brush as a few extremists! Bigots damage themselves more than they damage the targets of their bigotry! Doris has clearly revealed herself to have many problems, and certainly, further communication would be a waste of time. I sincerely hope she can get the help she needs and find freedom from the bondage of fear, resentment and anger that her words reveal.
It’s been nice chatting with you John. All the best to you and your wife. I have comments here forwarded to my email, so I’m sure we’ll chat again!
And all the best to you and yours …as well, T.! I’m going to attempt to give you my e-mail address, should you like to chat without “distractions” …but I’ll have to break it into parts so as to avoid this response being put into the “awaiting moderation” status and your not receiving it. Hope to hear from you soon! I’d like the opportunity to clear up a few things that I said regarding politics. I’m afraid that on a few points, I gave you a wrong impression of where I actually stand. (a matter of my haste in writing). Bless you! – John
jgalyon (at) bellsouth . net
p.s. – Doris, On my way out the door…I’m going to make a prediction. I predict that even though T and I won’t be here to suffer through any more of your ignorant rantings…you’ll continue to talk to yourself! You’re compulsive and obsessive…and there’s no way you’ll be able to stop! Wanna bet? Nothing like a good temper fit with no one listening!
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness,
but rather expose them.” (Ephesians 5:11)
There’s nothing wrong with loving those who are steeped in sin and rebellion against God, we’ve all been there (Eph. 2:3), but believers demonstrate love for others by pointing them to the truth and calling them to repentance, not by affirming their sin and rebellion.
The former is real Christian love, the latter is the very worst kind of satanic hate.
Feb.5,2015…Read Chuck Baldwins Column today. …The Church in America has BIG Problems.
Per Doris’ suggestion…I read Baldwin’s column and here is one quote taken straight from his writing:
“If unbelievers and pagans want to be filled with hate, so be it; but hatred has NO PLACE WHATSOEVER in the heart of a Christian. And after receiving tens of thousands of hate-filled responses regarding my comments last week, it dawned on me that the American Church is largely filled with hate–hatred against the Muslim people.
Ever since 9/11, Christians and conservatives have developed a hatred and animus, not just against Jihadist-Muslims (which, even that is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE for a Christian), but against Muslim people everywhere. All Muslims are commonly castigated and vilified just because they are Muslims.
Ladies and gentlemen, it is absolutely NOT TRUE that all Muslims are anti-American, anti-Christian murderers and terrorists. It is NOT TRUE that all Muslims want to enact Sharia Law in the United States. It is NOT TRUE that all Muslims are our enemies.
I wonder how many of these Muslim haters have ever met a Muslim in person. I have. I have met many–both in the United States and in the Middle East. They are NOT all America-haters. They are NOT all trying to kill us. America has had Christian missionaries ministering among Muslim nations for as long as our country has been in existence. And many Christians would be shocked to know that overall the Gospel has received greater acceptance by the Muslim population than by other religions of the region–much more, in fact, than by the Jewish population.
What is notable about this particular quote is that the same Doris that encouraged us to read the article, recently wrote on this thread…
“There are no good Muslims”.
Either Doris has changed her tune…or she’s a huge hypcocrite!
I would also add that while I agree with many things that Baldwin said in regard to “BIG problems” in today’s church, I urge everyone to read up on what he sees as the solutions to these problems. Don’t take my word for it! I encourage you to read everything that you can find about the man…and you’ll see that he is a dominionist, a militant, a racist, and as dangerous to the church and the American way of life as any man alive. Don’t take his word that he’s a God-fearing Christian and a patriot. Examine his life and the propaganda he spews and make up your own minds!
ha
“ha” …. Is that the best you can do? You are obviously so clueless that you failed to realize that Baldwin’s comments about Christians hating Muslims applies DIRECTLY TO YOU! So again, I’ll ask you: are you a total hypocrite…or have you had a change of heart and thinking after reading the words of your idol, Chuck Baldwin?
Hey Doris, I thought you said there are “no good Muslims” (?) Did Chuck change your mind? You so much as accused T. and I when we rebuked you for that statement of being “anti-Christ”. According to Chuck Baldwin…your statement is “hate-filled” and simply wrong! Has your heart changed…or are you just being a hypocrite? It has to be one or the other!
JOHN…..Isaiah 53 and and Romans 3….There’s none good no not one meaning Righteous.
You agree with Chuck ..yet you call Chuck every name in you evil mind. I will not respond again, but you will continue to talk to yourself…Poor stupid JOHN
I don’t want to get back in the habit of responding directly to Doris, as she has a marked pattern of refusing to engage in substantive discussion. But I will respond to her latest comments for the benefit of anyone who might find her comments. Here are a few easily validated facts from her most recent comments:
Instead of offering a real answer to my questions, she quotes scripture…and misuses scripture.
1. Isaiah 53 and and Romans 3….There’s none good no not one meaning Righteous.
While I would certainly agree that in this use of the word “good”…just as scriptures say, there is not one good person among us! Even Jesus raised an objection when someone referred to him as good! BUT…this scripture has NOTHING to do with Doris’ original statement in which she declared…
“there are no good Muslims”.
In terms of the measure of “goodness” or righteousness that the scriptures are speaking of…not only are there no “good” Muslims, but there are no “good” Christians. But make no mistake about it, this wasn’t what Doris was speaking of. If you want to know Doris’ true attitude about Muslims…read Baldwin’s descriptions of how many Christians literally hate Muslims…just because THEY ARE Muslims, not because they’re inherently evil and trying to destroy our nation or wipe Christianity from the face of the earth.
Now that Doris has been caught red-handed, she’s trying to cover her tracks, using scripture to imply that she meant something totally different than her words clearly showed that she meant. This isn’t just disingenuous, it’s dishonest and hypocritical. And even worse…she’s using the name of God, and the Word of God to cover her dishonesty and her hypocrisy.
2. “You agree with Chuck ..yet you call Chuck every name in you evil mind.’
Yet again, Doris totally misrepresents what I said. It’s easy enough to read my response to her and see that this is true. What I actually said was that I agree with much of what he described as being “B IG Promblems” within the church, I CLEARLY STATED that it is his “solutions” that I disagree with. Obviously, Doris only hears what she wants to hear.
3. “ I will not respond again, but you will continue to talk to yourself…
Classic Doris! No…Doris will be back and she’ll respond. She’s already said that she wouldn’t be back, yet just as I predicted…here she is again! While I truly wish Doris would keep her word and not return…mark my word…this isn’t the last we’ll hear from her!
4. “Poor stupid JOHN”.
Such a childish remark that it doesn’t deserve further response.
In the past few weeks, I’m not the only person to try to reason with Doris, but to no avail. When people are close-minded, narrow-minded, willfully ignorant, uneducated as to the subject they’re discussing (and unwilling to educate themselves), illogical, and totally opposed to reason and plain old common sense…speaking with them is a waste of time. I have no desire to engage Doris any further, but I will continue to refute her twisting and perverting of the truth, her continued misquoting and mischaracterizing the comments of others, and her flat-out lying.
If you notice, Doris absolutely made no effort to answer a simple, legitimate question..which was:
Have you now had a change of heart…and agree that all Muslims are not inherently “evil”…and “not good” as you have openly declared in the past? Or…are you just being a hypocrite, saying one thing…while simultaneously presenting yourself as being in agreement with Chuck Baldwin’s assessment that those who believe that there are “no good Muslims” are just ignorant and hate filled people?
Doris never misses an opportunity to avoid a direct question, but instead…utilizes the strategy of avoidance, changing the subject, or plain old lying; anything to avoid the truth …especially when she’s caught in a lie. It’s a pattern of behavior that she’s exhibited throughout this entire thread…and one that I suspect that she’ll continue to exhibit unless she chooses to repent.
Doris insists she won’t respond further, but once again…she will. And when she does, I’ll be back to expose and refute her lies…if it means monitoring this thread until the day that I die.
Be sure and read Chuck Baldwin’s column this week….
Just as I predicted, Doris is back! What she doesn’t seem to understand is that this isn’t The Chuck Baldwin” blog. If she wants to spew Baldwin’s heretical b.s., she needs to start her own blog and quit misusing this one. (ignorant response from Doris, forthcoming…I assure you)
Doris, In case you didn’t understand my “Hitler” comment (which is highly likely)…my point is that the Swaggarts’ reputation is so blackened within the Christian church that at this point, they lack any credibility whatsoever. Therefore, anyone with half a brain and the common sense of the average 4 year old would realize that any explanation that is short of a full confession of wrong doing would simply be unbelievable. There is too much evidence from too many people (including employees and former employees who are “in the know”) for any reasonable person to think there is a plausible explanation that vindicates JSM. But quite frankly, I’ve never found you to be the least bit reasonable, so I fully expect you to continue to support the Swaggarts…regardless of how foul they continue to behave.
I wrote a letter to John Rosenstern challenging some of his comments on his show ‘Insight”
He wrote me back, AND he brought my email up on a subsequent program. Interesting! I followed up with another letter, but haven’t heard anything else.
This is the first time anyone from there has responded to my emails!
I certainly received a rather long letter, one page and half.
Please send it. I’d love to read it!
What is your email address? I will forward it from my gmail account which I use here on this site..
I just receive d(2/19/15) an email from JSM administrative assistant explaining the printing scandal. I would be glad to send a copy of it from my gmail acct. to anyone who would like to read it. Doris Early
I’d trust that response like I’d trust Hitler’s secretary offering an explanation of the Holocaust.
Send it to me at [email protected].
Thanks
In the email dated today….They admit it happened.
Doris, can you post the email response from JSM here? You could type it out or cut and paste,
Send me an email address and I’ll send it to you. If you want to post it you may. I have decided to send it to people that will provide a personal email Only..
I’m not posting it
I have been listening to swaggart some off and on the last year or so.
I knew about his fall back in the 80’s and his on tv apology and message of repentance.
I do believe in forgiving people if they sincerely are repentant. But we all know that he was instrumental in bringing down Jim baker’s ministry. and maybe jim baker did need to be brought down, but for someone to do it who was being deceitful himself just wasn’t right.
In listening to him and his associate pastors, in 2015, I get the feeling that Jimmy swaggert is trying to make people think that he is the only ministry in existence that knows and teaches the message of the cross. IN fact I did hear him make a similar comment. He said that in all his years of going to church and listening to other pastors teaching he never ever heard this message preached.
they make subtle comments about other on tv pastors that they are not teaching the right thing, their doctrine is wrong, and so forth. Seems only JImmy has the right doctrine and right teaching. And that’s why he runs his programs on one channel just about 24 hours around the clock. If people can’t find some other preacher they can listen to they’ve always got Jimmy swaggert on 24 hrs a day. I think he’s doing this to try to lure people away from other pastors and other ministries to himself, to attempt build up his following again like he had it before his fall with the prostitutes in the 1980’s. Just my opinion. Just something about him, I just can’t trust him. But I do love to listen to his music and the gospel singing on his programs.
Doris,since your giving them a free pass,I hope you give us a free pass too.It would only be right if you do.
I am a Christian,and I love Country Music.I also hold to the onion that many Country singers are true Christians,something the Swaggart’s & I differ on.I also hold to the opnion that many Catholics,Baptist,Presybertians,and people of all faith’s are true Christians.I further believe there are good & bad people in every denomination,that no one is perfect,and that God will help people to decide which denomination to join.
I also hold to the opnion that you CAN be a true Christian,and sing,or listen to secular music too.And,I also hold to the opnion that anyone says I’m not a Christian for listening to this kind of music(or any kind of secular music),of if anyone says I’m not a Christian because I’m Catholic,Baptist,etc,,that person is playing God,and is judging our salvation.Thus,that person is ignoring the Bible verse “Judge not,lest ye be Judged”.
so,if your gonna give the Swaggart’s a free pass Doris,then it would only be right if you gave us a free pass too.
I lived in Nashville for years. I’m sure there are many born again people in the Nashivlle music industry. I know the Swaggarts speak of new Carts in the Church houses but as I understand them, it is not a blanket statement that all country music people are lost. I believe we are to judge righteous judgement according to John 7:14 …we judge according to the Word of God ..we must judge right or wrong in order to know who to vote for and to find out what is right and wrong we must know the BIBLE. For instance we know it is wrong to go to fortune-tellers..i.e King Saul and the witch of Endor..just one example. Oh yes you have a pass hahahaha
I do believe most ROMAN catholic are no Christian…Take Bill O’rielly for example..He says the Bible is an allegory(basically fiction). I like country music. I keep my radio on country music channel or have cds…I have listened to all kinds of music in my life…I can say WITHOUT A DOUBT ..The sonlifebroadcasting had the BEST MUSIC I have ever heard and the most talented musicians …I love Bryan Haney on the piano and Bob Henderson on the saxophone….can honestly say being from the woodstock generation they are the best I have heard. There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus…to those who walk AFTER the Holy Spirit and not after the FLESh. We can all do better. The Lord loves us and when it comes to the end of life…all that matters is WHAT we have done with JESUS.
Something else many of Swaggart’s followers may not consider.
Everyone has heard the old Saying “What Goes Around Comes around”? Well,it appears that would be true in the Swaggart’s case,considering he first blew the Whistle on Marvin Gorman,then Jim Bakker.So when J Swaggart done wrong,Gorman blew the Whistle on him.
I also believe God unconvered the trouble @ the Swaggart ministries,and seeing what the Swaggart’s are still doing,that alone inspires me NOT to watch the Swaggarts,or support them with my money.JMO.(And I don’t watch or support the Swaggarts in any way.I have given them to God,and let him deal with them.)
Amen, BK. You are right on!
It is unbelievable the way you want to see something bad happen to these people. How Godly..You are a disgusting human.
Doris,I’m so glad we agree there are some great Country singers who are Christians.Hope a lot of other people on here agree too.
Bk,
The Swaggart’s aren’t right about everything Who is? Oh I forgot ..T. Heilm and J. Gaylon on this website.
We are all (even though saved) are sinners saved by the GRACE of God through faith in Jesus.
I do not go fishin’ in the past for other individual’s past sins/scandals etc. Don’t follow me around you will catch me in a mistake. I’m saved though. .
And one other thing,I don’t want nothing bad to happen to these people.I have forgiven them,and wish them no harm.And I have put them in god’s hands.
Hi BK,
Of course there are country singers who are Christian believers….just like there are Christian believers who sing Rock -n- Roll, Jazz. Opera or any other style/form of music! This is one, blatantly obvious area where the Swaggarts show their Biblical illiteracy! It’s also a huge contradiction to their “cross alone/faith alone/grace alone” message (meaning they claim they are all about grace, but constantly preach legalism..calling many things “sin” that aren’t even mentioned in the Bible).
You mentioned the situation with Marvin Gorman earlier….actually, Gorman had the decency to offer Swaggart a way to save face! He told Swaggart that he would destroy the photographs and not speak about what he knew publicly IF Swaggart would apologize to Gorman in public. He waited 6 months before going to the Assemblies of God!
My only wish for them is that they would get off the air and out of the public eye….
I am sending them 1,000 dollars per month and praying they never go off the air. Why do you care? Leave it to the Lord . Do you not trust him? What about John Hagey? I wish he was off the air.
Doris,
You have totally misrepresented my comments concerning the Swaggarts & that ministry. Everything that I have said is completely accurate because it reflects exactly what the Swaggarts say publicly! Everything is independently verifiable to any objective observer! You are doing EXACTLY what the Swaggarts do….completely misrepresent the words, doctrines, writings and positions of others! Now, there are only two reasons for that…one is ignorance (lack intellectual capacity) OR it’s intellectual dishonesty (intentional misrepresentation…or simply, lying)!
Perhaps you’re independently wealthy and $1000/month doesn’t mean that much to you. But, $1000 could mean everything to a kid who needs an education, medical or dental care, a struggling college student, a family who’s lost a parent….ANY number of desperate needs that GOD has instructed his followers to reach out and meet for the cause of Christ! Instead, you give it to people who tell you “it’s none of your business how we use your money” (that’s what it means when an organization believes they have NO ACCOUNTABILITY to their donors OR anyone), people who are wealthy (reportedly making over $600,000/year [each, by the way] many years ago, have large real estate holdings, etc.So, what a shame! You might deceive yourself into believing that they are reaching millions for the gospel, but I assure you, they are driving more people away from the gospel. They appeal to religious fundamentalists….those are the ones getting “re-saved” all the time.
Jesus taught through parables that we will be held accountable for our stewardship of the resources God has blessed us with. He will hold YOU accountable….He’ll hold the Swaggarts accountable as well, but He gave you a brain He expects you to use, He gives WISDOM to those who ask, so there isn’t any excuse for handing over $12,000 a year to people who refuse to disclose how it’s being used! Would you invest money with a company who refuses to demonstrate a financial track record, or tell you how you money is invested? We are NOT to be gullible! I hope you’ll re-think what you’re doing.
T. Heim,
I buy the Holy Bible for them to give to pastors all over the world. Not that it is any of your business.
I give to alot of causes Yes we have been blessed financially as well as with health and strength. The remarks you made are there for the world to read. The condemnation rings. You always try to throw in the ignorance factor and the lack of intelligence factor. You are full of condemnation,as is the John guy.. I guess you believe Hagey is correct on all his teachings and the assemblies of God in general. They are not. I consider myself a Berean Christian. I study to show myself approved unto God, a workman, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. I do not listen and believe as most church people . I study for myself. I do not use the Expositors Study Bible although I do like it and did purchase one years ago and gave it away. Before the Swaggarts had SLB.
The mark of a real man or woman of God is: When they get knocked down or make a mistake, will they get back up and go on with The Lord,(i.e. the Apostle PETER).
You condemn Chuck Baldwin too. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Doris,
The truth is, you have no idea how your money is being used! Once the money goes to the Swaggarts, they are the only ones who know where it goes…they move it around to where ever they want! It funds Donnie’s travel expenses, basically any of their lifestyle choices. Believe me, I know how corporations work! And non- profit churches have NO government oversight or interfrrence! You would be blown away to see what these people think they’re entitled to!
Reputable Christian ministries insist on having outside audits of all finances, including salaries, overhead, what percentage of donations actually get to the projects/beneficiaries! It is FOOLISH to give to anyone that does not do these audits or have independent boards of directors overseeing the process!
The Swaggarts live a lifestyle that’s well-beyond yours or for that matter, beyond most of their congregation. The Swaggarts keep to themselves…they don’t mix with the people in their church…they are very secretive about everything! Why do people behave like that? Isn’t it obvious?
Do you support your local church with money like that? When you look at your family, friends, neighbors, acquaintances, do you not see important or desperate needs that $1000 could make a huge difference? God uses his people to be the miracle in others lives! What desperate need does SBN meet?? Putting another christian church program in cities in the United States that are already SATURATED with the gospel??? God already has his numerous children (especially in America), churches, Christian television and radio….the gospel is everywhere! Even if the Swaggarts were preaching an accurate gospel with himility, I wouldn’t fund them because it’s wasteful. I’ll use the $1000 to fund my own ministry in people’s lives!
Please wise-up! Think and pray about what your doing. And don’t come back with comments like “it’s a free country” or “I can do what I want” blah, blah, blah! That’s obvious! You can flush it down the toilet, burn it, whatever! Just don’t buy into the Swaggarts silly ideas that you will get rewarded with crowns in heaven, or get the same rewards that they get for winning souls…..all of that is unscriptural! It is a gross misunderstanding of scripture!
T. Heim,
As usual you are speaking as if you are more knowledgeable that I. In the Lord’s eyes he is looking at my heart. Why are we giving ….PERIO?. If our motives are pure.
When it comes to the Swaggarts you are hysterical. Don’t you worry about me and my family …we know what we are doing.
Yes we give to local churches and other churches in Kentucky. Christian Schools etc. NOW BLAH ,BLAH say I’m bragging. I don’t care what Donnie and his family are doing with money. They are accountable to the US IRS as a 501c3. …If I deduct charitable contributions and name them and have their receipts for contributions ,then they must be able to match what I am deducting. As I said, they are accountable to IRS just like me and to God , just like me.
Are you really that ignorant to believe the Swaggarts could steal money that is sent in literal check..
If they are cheating the IRS and people , it will catch up with them. I really do not think they are that stupid.
I need no advice from you as to how to give my money. Don’t worry about.
You are arrogant as I have told you before.
Leave me along. I’m a big girl.
Who do you give to ..just for future reference . Since you are so wise and know so many that are perfect in their lives are without one single sin. BTW you make me puke.
Doris,
You’re not forced to be here….If you can’t stand the heat…as the adage goes.
Do you think it’s ok to give money when there’s a high probability it’s going to be used for nefarious purposes….drugs, gambling, terrorism, mismanaged religious organizations? It’s plain nonsense to think YOU have no responsibility for how the money is used!!
The IRS does not “oversee” or control money in religious organizations! Have you ever seen a 50l (c)3 tax return? You ought to write the IRS and request one for JSM, SBN, FWC, and any other entities under which they do business! Those returns are open to the public! However, some churches don’t even have to file any forms. So, NO, the IRS doesn’t watch over them. And, you must be quite unfamiliar with the ways a business can move money around claiming “business expenses” when the monies are actually going to fund their lifestyle and influence, eg corporate jets, high-end cars, travel expenses (all their trips to Israel and all over the world…they take the whole Swaggart clan), a “parsonage” (which can be as opulent and expensive as they choose)…and so on! I believe I’ve made my point.
Your statement- “I really don’t care what Donnie and his family do with the money!” Says it all….
I think it’s clear that I AM more knowledgeable than you are concerning this entire conversation. It’s your attitude that makes me ill….sad actually!
If your buying bibles to go all over the world and give $1000 per month to the Swaggert ‘ministry’…is none of our business as you just claimed, then why do you feel it necessary to tell everyone here on a public forum? You’re one big contradiction…
I do believe some are saved. I loved George Jones . I believe he got saved late in life. I took my daddy to see him . My dad was a born again child of God and was a great witness for the Lord. He loved George Jones. He never been to anything like a country concert. Jones was vintage Nashville Country. Johnny Cash same. I believe he was saved. He and June Carter Cash.
There are people here on the site that think they are just little more righteous than others. A born again child of God knows that we are all the same in the sight of the Lord. The heart above all things is deceitful and desperately wicked…Who can know it. The John Gaylen guy on here and T. Hielm (sp) ..they despise Swaggart’s. Not just Jimmy but ALL the Swaggarts. I actually love them all and love what they teach. I am not ignorant of the Word of God. The two I just mentioned are mean-spirited. We could never live up to their standards. I’m happy the Lord Jesus is the judge ..some of the church people would send me straight to HELL and be smiling about it.
You have the ignorant audacity to talk about not judging, and then, out of the clear blue, you bring me and T.Heim into the mix, declaring us to be mean-spirited and telling people, ” we could never live up to their standards”…and you don’t see that as being judgmental? What color is the sky that you live in, woman? I haven’t even been on this site for several months, and for no reason whatsoever…just suddenly decide to make nasty statements about me and T.Heim, one of the most balanced and truly godly women I’ve met in my lifetime…and you fail to see the hypocrisy in what you’re saying? As many problems as i have with the Swaggerts, I’d still find it hard to believe that if you read your comments…that even though you constantly defend anything they say or do…that they wouldn’t rebuke you soundly. On a purely personal basis, I’m not offended by the things you say about me. What I hate is the offense and shame that you bring to Christ and His church by the constant ignorant things that you say…all coming from an obvious place of hatred in your heart. If I were you, I would honestly be scared that God might strike me dead at any moment. I only hope for those people who come to this forum and see your name and read a couple of comments…that they will go back far enough into previous comments you made so that you will be exposed for the enemy of the cross that you truly are. You bring nothing but disgrace to His name.
my comment should read, “if the Swaggerts read your comments (Doris’ comments) …
You are a coward…You put no reply so you can say what you want and no reply or comments come to your emal.
BTW I got you email saying you had a letter you wanted to sent me . You sent me your emal. Do not deny it JOHN …I replied and your wife wrote me back.
you’re confusing me with another guy named John. I’m John Galyon and my wife has no idea who you are, and I’m certain that if she read your comments, she’d have no desire to know you.
I would never send you an e-mail. I don’t know your address, don’t want to know it, and truly wish that I’d never see your name again in my life. By the way…after promising two times that you’d never speak on here again….here you are, not keeping your word and continuing to spew your venom, just like I predicted you would two different times…
Hey ridiculously stupid I was replying to a person using the username BK. Not you.
JOHN …the comment about ridiculously stupid was FOR YOU.
Nice try at shirking responsibility for what you said. You needlessly brought my name into the discussion and were quite nasty as usual in doing so.
Very Christ-like of you, Doris.
I’m glad you believe George Jones was saved Doris.I met him once,and I agree,he was saved.I’ve met a lot of other Great country stars who are Christians too.
BK,
Me too. I want you to go back and read the grief that I have taken from T. Heim and John Gaylon(sp) and tell me what you think. The Word tells us to judge righteous judgement according to the Word of God …John 7:14.
The people on this site are condemners ..Yes my daddy loved George Jones. He had the best time that night. We were in Bristol at Viking Hall. We live close to Bristol. Ronnie Millsap and Lori Morgan…I believe they are both saved , we had them perform my husbands company for the 100th yr. celebration. Lori Morgan took some requests and she said ..”if you have a request, write it on the back of a $100 dollar bill and I’ll sing it”. We wrote HE STOPPED LOVING HER TODAY on one and sent it up to her. hahahaha She couldn’t sing it. She forgot the words ..Nobody had it like George. God Bless George Jones.
I haven’t been on site for months, and I take a peek in to see that while i might have been gone…Doris hasn’t forgotten me. She’s mentioned me twice in one day, so I’m obviously on her mind, but i doubt that I’m in her prayers! Just consider the old adage that says something to the effect of: “It’s better to keep your mouth shut and let people assume you’re a fool…than to open to open it and prove them correct”. Keep smiling and serving the Swaggerts (uh…I mean, Jesus!)…Doris!
“I am sending them 1,000 dollars per month and praying they never go off the air.” – Doris Early.
Yes, Doris…and you just got your reward for that $1000 monthly gift that you’re obviously so proud of. Now…everyone knows just how extremely spiritual and godly that you are!
Are you really serious…or are you the most skilled “troll” that I’ve ever witnessed on any internet forum? I sometimes find it hard to believe that you’re seriously as ignorant as your comments and beliefs portray you to be…but I have to admit that I think you’re real…and not a troll. I actually think that the Lord would be much more inclined to show his grace toward you if you were a troll…than a a real-life Christian who so ignorantly attempts to represent His name…
Frankly my dear JOHN …I’d say your do not give a DIME to anything. All you can do is say words like ignorant, not intelligent, uneducated, just name call in general.
Whether i give a dime, a million dollars, or nothing…is between me and God. Unlike you, I don’t feel the need of tooting my own horn about how much i give or how many bibles i send to other countries…like you just did.
Frankly JOHN , that is a fraction …I’m bragging on Jesus..HE has poured out a blessing on me and mine which I can not contain.
Leave me alone. I admit it …you are sickening on this site. I LIKE THE SWAGGART.family …and I love the music on SLB. I love that they give out BIBLES for people that can’t make the trip to hand the Bibles out.
STOP condemning people like me that love and like the Swaggarts. You will stand before JESUS one day and you will be held accountable. THANK THE LORD
I listened to Mishel’s talk about the Swaggarts. At one stage we had 13 different Christian TV channels here in the UK and it seemed to be like the heretic central network for most of those channels. It was actually quite embarrassing to be considered Evangelical with the weird ministries on Christian TV who have somewhat lost the plot.
Now Swaggert’s SLB channel made it’s way to England too.
I think as a rule of thumb if a Christian organisation is called by someone’s name or if a single individual is identified with a particular ministry the warning lights should go up.
With the Swaggart’s we havn’t got individuals called and confirmed by God to spread the Word but literally a family business.
I was watching quite a bit to see how bad they really are. Without going into details I got the general impression that they display a lot of arrogance compared to other Christian outlets, they portray little grace and come across as rather mean spirited.
I think in general in Christendom we are getting the idea of church wrong.
Ministries like Swaggarts are focused on a small group of key people who run the show and others consume other than making big donations, “tithe”, and look for more converts.
The way the early churched worked was one of living together, encouraging one another and sharing the word of God. Individuals were discipled like apprentices and not preached to.
I think we should revisit church and the way we run it – more focus on Jesus and less focus on individuals!
Michael
Michael,
Your comments are right on! American evangelicalism has allowed itself to be influenced too much by the surrounding culture and values of rugged individualism, prosperity, etc. Many evangelical leaders are speaking out on this, admonishing the church to shed some of these values in order to preach an authentic gospel message the culture around us! The Swaggart ministry represents everything that should be abhorrent to the gospel message….sinful behavior, hypocrisy, greed, arrogance and false doctrine! The Swaggart ministry has NO credibility in the American evangelical church. He was defrocked many years ago because of his unrepentant heart and failure to submit to Biblical authority. His followers are extreme fundamentalists who are generally uneducated, reject intellectualism, are angry and suspicious of anyone who dare disagree with the tiniest doctrine. People like this are easily manipulated. Frankly, that ministry embarrasses the body of Christ!
The Christian answer man replied to my commentS….
Yes, and his answer is just what i thought it would be! I’ve posted your comment below, along with his response, so that people can see for themselves:
DORIS: First all …you use an inaccurate Bible. In that version you use go to the story in Gen. about Abraham and Issac going to the mountain to make sacrifice to God.
The big blunder in THE BIBLE you are using is it says…. he sacrificed FOR himself a lamb…That null and voids the Blood . He sacrificed HIMSELF..we could put a period there. The actual quote is ..He sacrificed HIMSELF A LAMB. Read it!!!
And his reply……Hi Doris – I do not know to what article on this website you are referring to. You mentioned this verse about Abraham and Isaac twice, once on the Summary of JSM page, but I don’t quote such a verse on that page, so if you want a detailed answer you will have to specify the article and passage you are referring to. Again, the KJV Only position is untenable and I’ll get an article up shortly on that. That is another one of the Swaggart aberrations.
He can’t make any sense out of your comment either! Furthermore, he confirms what I told you concerning your misguided belief about the KJV.
Now post what I said back to him….I also told him about you …post that. I had to draw him a picture. Just like I have to do you. I also told him about the fact that the perverted bible translation he uses leaves the name Lucifer out of it and the scripture in Isaiah keeps in star of the morning and morons like you think it is referring to Jesus. Read IT!!!!! Isaiah 14:12-14, KJV ONLY has the name LUCIFER.
I am so flattered that you will use what could be the final moments of your life to RE-POST what I wrote. You are a real GENIUS….and a perfect Hypocrite.
The Swaggarts can’t hold candle to you….!!!!!!!
YOU Mishel McCumber are the unfruitful WORKS of darkness
Timothy Baldwin,
How so? Do you even listen to SBN? If so, how can you miss the false teaching and un-Christlike presentation of the gospel? Tell us why Mishel’s comments are “works of darkness?”
He who is without sin ….let him cast the first stone ,that’s what Jesus said.
The people on this website would love to see something really bad happen to the Swaggart family
Doris,
You Swaggart followers are unbelievably predictable!! Every day, every hour of every show on SBN contains nothing but criticism of every other ministry, minister, song, and on and on…..which CLEARLY, you don’t have a problem with. But anyone who tries to criticize the doctrines on SBN, you throw your pat answers: “he who is without sin cast the first stone”…..or “touch not God’s anointed” ETC! You don’t even seem to get the hypocrisy! This is very typical of “cult-like” behavior! Wake-up!
You make the LORD puke.
YOU make me puke. Sooner or later those who attempt to have a reasonable conversation with you will realize that they might as well be talking to a rock…a very ignorant rock.
Hi John,
You’re right! A lost myself there for a minute! (Hehe)!
I was thrilled to ring across this website: www. christiananswerman .com. I couldn’t believe that over the course of the last two years, someone hadn’t put together a scholarly analysis of Swaggart’s teaching! When I recently found this, I was thrilled and very impressed with the quality of the writing! Check it out! He names this blog (deception bytes) as another good resource!
I find it amazing that EVERY Swaggart/SBN follower I have had contact with fits Doris’s profile! Which when you think about it, it shouldn’t be that surprising, as committed followers often emulate their leaders.
Take care!
You and John are both ridiculously stupid. It’s overly obvious that the man you listen to is trying to make money online.
You are so arrogant you make all others look humble. I can just see you now. A little old lady watching Jimmy Swaggart on tv .hahahahahahahah
T.Heim, I am listening to Hank as I type…The broadcast is about homosexuality and transgender. He calls it same sex marriage. 8:32am.
I’ll let you know if I believe he is scriptural or not. ha
Who is Hank?
I googled the bibleanswerman.com it is a man named Hank Hanagraaff answering questions about the Bible…onesource.com is that not your man?
Michael,
Have you ever wondered why these people are never critical of people like Kenneth Copeland who recently linked arms with the Jesuit Pope of the Roman Catholic Church? Copeland says the protest of Martin Luther has ended. James Robinson is another apostate preacher who has also linked arms with “pope francis” . Then there is Steve Furtick, pastor of the Elevation church…he is overly obvious demon possessed with the powers of darkness. His church is huge in Charlotte,NC. Then we have Joel Olsteen who speaks in smooth sayings as Ish. spoke of …he is no doubt a false “prophet”. Why are they never called out?
I found your christiananswerman….He uses a perverted version of the bible. In Gen. where Abraham takes Issac up to the mountain for sacrifice ….IN the version he uses it say he will provide FOR Himself a lamb. In the KJV it says He will provide HIMSELF a sacrifice. His version is watered down and nullifies the BLOOD. That fact made me have no confidence in him immediately . He has untruth over and over about jsm teaching on the message of the cross of JESUS and what JESUS’ finished WORk thereon. The Message of the sanctification process being in the Cross also as is salvation is the revelation that swaggart says was a revelation TO HIM.
Ignorance is dangerous….it is crippling to one’s progress, inhibits the maturation process and prevents one from living in truth!
So, you are one of those who think that the English speaking people are the only group of people who have the only accurate, “nonperverted” Word of God since the 1611 KJV?? WOW! That would mean that for approximately 1500 years, while the church was forming and growing, and our foundational doctrines developed, they didn’t have an accurate version of the scriptures? And the whole non-English-speaking world STILL done st have an accurate version of scripture? My,my,my!
It’s literally impossible to converse with someone so disillusioned.
Swaggart is dead wrong about the church…..His glorious church, without spot, wrinkle or any such blemish….the church that is built upon the “Rock”…the Gospel of Jesus Christ, of whom Jesus said “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it!” This is the CHURCH…which Jimmy Swaggart et.al. refuse to be a part of, and who has spoken concerning Jimmy Swaggart, and put him OUT according to the scriptures! Only the Lord knows the condition of JS’s heart. But his standing as a leader and minister is GONE, due to rebellion against God, lack of repentance, and false teaching! Plain and simple!
Everything about this ministry is cult-like….from the leadership right down to the last follower. I’ve come to realize that deception is powerful, and no amount of talking is going to free anyone from deception! Like with salvation or anything else, you lay out the evidence, point to the truth, and then rely on the Holy Spirit to break through the bondage! We are all responsible for ourselves and what we do. There is none so blind as those who will not see.
Apparently you didn’t read the example I gave about the version of the bible he your man is using. THe word IF changes the entire meaning. That version takes away the name of Jesus and uses the word the ONE …
You are the one who is deceived. You are repeating what your christian KNOW IT ALL man ONLINE is saying to the tee. Now I know why all your comments are so LONGGGGGG!
T.Heim…..At least give the Christian Answer man credit for his words which you are repeating.
In all of the JS hater local dead churches, just ask yourself one thing, how many people last Sunday went to the alter and confessed, repented, received, change life, now saved, I saw people run to the alter there not walk, I know I sat in a church for many years, seen an alter call monthly sometimes quarterly, sometimes 2-5 people at the max and capacity 1200, 5 services a weekend.
If we are to get rewards by things done in the body of Christ, you better quit hating because if you count the souls led to Jesus through that man the last 50 years it’s probably unmatched and he will be in charge of much and you may be working under his authority of a nation he may rule. I pray I can be blessed to be in worship there, because if it’s a competition that all churches to worship the forever ad forever after his return, then I want to be in this one because the trophy will go there every time! You better change because when they were about to stone that person mentioned in the bible and Jesus bent down and wrote in the sand and they stopped and went away I am pretty sure he was writing there darkest secrets and publically as he will do you and I, how many times does he forgive, every time 7×77 he said it in his word. Good thing, this comment is for the haters, you local churches are jealous, come join this one and get saved I challenge you to go there on any Sunday, the reason his ministry is so alive and prospers is because they work 24-7, the way they do it all can only be led by the spirit.
B
Hello B.
I am so glad you said what you said to t.heim. She is the most arrogant person I believe I have ever encountered. You are very right about her and the John G. on her needing to be saved. There is another man “pastor mark” ….he has a website dedicated to the destruction of JSM.org
To attack the character of Jimmy Swaggart. These people can’t let what happened 30+yrs. ago …be in the past. They go fishing for anything they can nit pick.
I agree with you whole completely. Go back and read how they called me ignorant & uneducated etc. Just I am in a hurry and do not try to write a perfect book in commenting.
The sad part is …..they are watching Jimmy Swaggart constantly on sbn.
The woman with this website needs to forgive the Swaggarts too.
Hi Bruce,
Evangelism is done in many different ways….and most of it is done OUTSIDE of the church service! Each believer is an evangelist, as we live out the gospel and share the love and grace of God through Jesus Christ. We evangelize through sharing our personal testimony, caring for the sick, feeding the hungry, caring, loving and respecting people, etc. The gospel needs to be brought TO the unsaved…outside the church, where the unbelievers are! People CAN get saved by responding to an alter call in a church, but most unbelievers won’t ever darken a church door! So, that is a poor measure of the effectiveness or “rightness” of a particular church or ministry!
Additionally, the message that is preached at FWC is flawed! The “alter-calls” are often ambiguous, e.g. “if you don’t feel right with God” OR “if you are struggling with sin, or a bondage in your life,” etc. Often, it’s the same people going forward…people who have already come to Christ!
Your attempts to “warn” us “haters” is a typical ploy of all Swaggart followers! It never ceases to amaze me how you can sit under this ministry and have no awareness for the constant criticism, anger and slander of the “modern church” and many effective, Godly ministers and ministries! This is a hallmark of the Swaggart ministry! How is it that you are offended by other believers using FACTS to expose the false teaching of JSM, but you’re NOT offended by the slanderous, provably false statements and accusations by the Swaggarts et.al? Can you explain that?
You are being deceived! You think they are wildly successful? Have you not seen the pictures of what the crowds at FWC looked like back in the 80’s? Look it up on YouTube! That place can hold at least twice as many people as they draw during the Camp Meetings! How is it that, despite world-wide exposure on SBN, they can’t even fill FWC for one service?? Have you noticed how their donations have slowed? The last few months, they have missed their goal by $400-$500K!
Based on the quality and content of this ministry, I’m shocked they can get the support that they do! But compared to the totality of the Body of Christ, they represent a small sliver of the pie, representing the extremist fundamentalist group of believers. There are lots of churches in Baton Rouge, some very large ministries!
I invite you to re-examine this ministry! There is a great website that has done a comprehensive examination of JSM & his doctrine of the cross. He also transcribes a debate with a Swaggart follower. It’s well-worth your time to explore. You can make up your own mind, but the Bible teaches that ALL Christians should examine teaching by the Word of God, test the spirits, etc. The website is: www. christiananswerman .com
I pray that you will be given eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart open to the truth of our Lord!
t.heim is the most ignorant of them all. She trys to stroke the ego of people like the glutton “pastor mike” by telling him how right he is. They dwell on Jimmy Swaggart and ignore . Kenneth Copeland who is linked arms with the so called pope. Rick warren a confirmed devil.
James Robinson,visited the pope and say the protest has ended. , John Hagey (taking people back to the LAW ) These false prophets are ignored by people like t.heim . This proves it is a personal hatred she and j.gaylon have against the Swaggarts.
When a person is as full of hate as t.heim there is no way they can be listened to. Ugh.
I’m sure t.heim has been watching the Swaggarts this week so she will know.
Snoop Dog was on the today show …as he was going off from his segment he said, I want to say a shout out to my grandma….hi grandma…NOW YOU CAN GO BACK TO watching JIMMY SWAGGART. hahahahahahaha
Doris, You are truly one sick, deranged, hate-filled woman.
A serious question for you, Doris: what is your purpose in posting on this site? You talk about T.Heim, me, and the Swaggarts more than you do Jesus…so why the obsession? Just too much time on your hands? I’ve posted here about once a month since Christmas, and yet you mention my name almost daily (?). What’s up with that? All I can say is that I’ve come across some pretty weird people in my life…but you win the prize. Once you finish your usual diatribe that will most certainly have absolutely nothing to do with the questions I posed, could you please answer those questions?
I normally ignore you and will continue to after this comment. I hadn’t been on this site for a couple of months and I got an email of a post from someone calling themselve B.K. I responded.
BTW John you lied about not sending me a personal email. Patty is your wife’s name. Now how do I know that? I am using my real name I have nothing to hide.
This is a hate site not site to speak of Jesus. It’s a site to hate Jimmy Swaggart.
I’ve sent you no personal e-mail. Put your money where your mouth is and copy/paste it if you still want to insist that I sent anything to you personally. How would I even have your e-mail address? If I had ever sent you an e-mail, I’m certain that the first thing you would have done would have been to post it right here on this site…and you know it, liar.
p.s. – as is always the case, you evaded my questions and made your same, tired assessment that anyone who disagrees with the antics of your idol, Jimmy Swaggart…are just “haters”.
Doris Early, or George Moody…or whoever you are, thank you for admitting that you sent and e-mail to both my wife and to me. Read slowly and let it sink in…don’t contact either of us again…ever, or face prosecution. T. Heim did not give you my e-mail address, you psychopathic idiot.
p.s – I’m contacting Mishel McCumber, the owner/author of this blog, asking that she ban you. You’re not just ignorant, you’re dangerous.
I beginning to think t.heim and John are one in the same. At any rate. I sent , AT T.heim’s request, a forward of the letter I received from JSM.org regarding a question I had . I received an a answer and T.Heim requested a copy of it .. I sent it to her with all my information on it …even my fax number. T.heim is the one who knows my address in Kingsport,Tn. John asked me where I live. I answered with only the city and state…that post is here on this website. . T.Heim actually has a copy of my husbands info and it is complete. I have nothing to hide.
Gmail assigned me a username …George Moody..
WHATEVER…The only fight I am called to fight is the GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH IN THE LORD JESUS.
Ok- Doris Early has been banned. I apologize that I have not stepped in earlier. I try to give people freedom to speak their mind but in this case she was clearly stalking another user. That will never be tolerated. Again, I apologize for not stepping in sooner.
Hi John. This is James of the other blog. I’m glad that I was not the worst ‘opponent’ you’ve had. I promise not to email you either. The friendly offer of scriptural debate on any topic is still open as well. You choose the topic.
Hi T Heim. The offer of friendly scriptural debate is open to you as well. Any topic, your choice.
This forum is truly an ‘eye-opener’.
May I just ask, where is Mike Mcmullen and Boo (JSM,s drummer)
I enjoyed watching Jimmy Swaggart in the 1980s and I am very happy he is back on Tv I really love the music and the way he preaches. He makes it easy to understand being raised so called Catholic. Reverend Swaggart has admitted that all men sin including him. So what I find that is what makes more meaningful to me to watch him. Wow All the perfect people on this blog! Look at the Catholic how can anyone follow that after child rape after child rape, I Feel the ones critical of the Swaggarts just come of as vindictive for no reason.
Chris,
Do you think it’s right to hold a billion people responsible for the sins of a few? The Swaggart’s know very little about Catholicism, and they criticize things they don’t fully understand. But, I have to ask you this, how is it that you want to chide those on this blog who have criticisms of the Swaggart’s teaching, but you don’t chide the Swaggarts for their unfair, unfounded, continual criticism of just about everyone outside of their ministry? Do you not notice it?
“People were hurt by his sin problems in the 80’s ”
“….his problem in the late 80s…”
**********
I know it’s been a few months since Doris was banned but I just wanted to correct some misleading quotes made by her. Above are only two examples of her many attempts to minimize Swaggart’s astounding fall.
To review > the last JS hooker incident (well, the last one we know about anyway) happened in 1995, not “the 80s”.
He was found with a hooker on 3 separate occasions — twice after he had publicly “repented” but refused Godly council/discipline as prescribed by scripture.
But no matter how many times Doris was asked how she felt about this, she simply would not address it and defaulted to the stale “don’t judge” argument when the heat was too much for her. I found the constant deflection by a professed Christian strange to say the least.
We should never forget that Swaggart arrogantly told his congregation “God told me it’s flat none of your business”, again revealing a shocking contempt for God’s Word and His flock.
Yet post after post after post, Doris refused to acknowledge the seriousness of his rebellion, almost as if it never happened.
Let’s get real. Only someone with extremely poor discernment/low intelligence OR a person who IDOLIZES Swaggart himself would continue to blindly defend the man and his ministry. The dust can now be kicked from the feet of all of you who faithfully tried to reach Doris with the truth. God will take it from here. 🙂
Hello, the whole thing is going well here and ofcourse every
one is sharing data, that’s actually fine, keep up writing.
Swaggart Ministries Finances – For at least the third or fourth month in a row, SBN has fallen short of their stated telethon goal by around $800K. Does anyone know anything about the finances of this organization? If you go on their website, there are several separate entities from which to chose to donate…e.g. Family Worship Center, Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, Sonlife Broadcasting, Biblethon, etc. I’m assuming these are separate from the books and music available for sale. They claim that they need over $4M/month just for television “time.”
The Swaggarts and all their affiliate pastors admit openly that they don’t have a board of directors, and they don’t believe in accountability to anyone (except “God”). So, I assume they produce no financial reports of any kind to their members and/or donor base. Is this accurate?
Do they pay all of their affiliate ministers, musicians, etc? Does the Bible College and Christian Academy operate as separate entities? I notice that when their affiliate pastors preach the Sunday night services, they take up a special offering for him/her. Is this in addition to a salary?
It never ceases to amaze me how easily….carelessly some Christian people are with their money! Even when the ministry they chose to support has a history of lying, deceit, duplicity! It’s really sickening to hear people say how they’ve sacrificed to give to this ministry….people on DISABILITY giving part of their disability payments, etc. And all to keep such ignorant, false, misguided information going out! Ignorance, lack of wisdom and discernment are the most dangerous qualities in people who call themselves Christians….people who think they are doing something good, something worthy for the Kingdom of God! Truly shameful!
Has anyone noticed how nervous that the preachers who work for Swaggart? IT’s like that they will say the wrong thing or not build the ministry up or the Swaggarts, and might get fired.
Has anyone noticed how nervous that the preachers who work for Swaggart? IT’s like that they will say the wrong thing or not build the ministry up or the Swaggarts, and might get fired.
I’m just going to get straight to the point about Jimmy Swaggart he’s the type of man that will claim he has read the bible through and through over fifty times from Genesis to revelations and it was supposed to be KJV and all he can get is the sacrifice? When the bible plainly tells you we was bought with a price and Jesus was that price and it drafted us into that olive tree and now we can become the children of God and for over 2000 years that’s been our privilege, you don’t take the word of God and try to deny the things of God trying to downgrade the birth and resurrection of Christ when all was important the prophets had prophesied of it and it had to come to pass because it was the word of the almighty God the true king. Jesus said in the word the laws and the prophets was until John but since that time the kingdom was being preached people better pay close attention to what Jesus was preaching throughout the whole word of god and pay attention to his blood when he shed is blood that brought the new testament into effect for that grain of wheat fell into the ground and it died and it brought forth fruit Paul said if Jesus be not risen our religion is vain and he had to go away or the comforter would not come which is the holy ghost. And it seems like it strains then to say holy ghost and that’s a puzzle within itself why they are like that putting all that aside I don’t believe that god gave him permission to write his own bible and changing words like holy ghost they would put holy spirit cause they say its more proper it shouldn’t of been said that way in the bible and putting his words in red. Mind you he is talking about the word of god and trying to correct it and that was written by a spared man as the holy ghost moved upon them now grant you, you can question the things I have to say and the other preachers have to say but when you question the deciples words and try to say they said things wrong your stepping over in the wrong no matter who you are. What received was from God not man so that should be a red flag within itself right there saying it should’ve been said this way or that things mean different now than they did back then. Truly do you believe that when it says its so plain that a way fair man shouldn’t error there in he said if my gospel be hide its hide to those who are lost. When I get into the scriptures I get a whole lot more than the sacrifice. He didn’t give jimmy or any other man the right to write his own bible for copy rights and money. People better realize that they don’t help the needy they are against the churches that do help the needy and poor and Jesus said himself the poor we will always have but me talking about his life in earth you won’t always have. Gods people is not involved in the government system all the time like elections it says to pray for your leaders not run them down even if they don’t satisfy you pray for them do you realize the CDs and books he sells he’s making millions his advertising time in paid for by the people thinking they are buying a blessing so yeah he can afford fine houses and cars and maybe even jets and if anyone knows anything about the scriptures its in Paul about them that do it for gain such turn from not turn to.them. of course jimmy isn’t the only one on TV making millions off the people they’re a bunch of others but the word still says the say turn away from them very little true gospel will you get over TV. If people would support a true church that’s preaching the true gospel and support them like they do those ear ticklers they would be doing good and would get a whole lot more blessings god will not bless people that strengths the hand of an evil doer so when you listen to them preach you better make sure they’re preaching the true gospel or your money is spent for nothing.
Yikes! Sounds like MANY people are pissed at Jimmy and his SCAMMING relatives! Rightfully so!
He, Donnie and Gabe have ALL openly LIED about “building 50 schools and a church in port au
prince, haiti after the earthquake. That is TRUE! They did NOTHING but put $MILLIONS in their
pockets, as a result of that catastrofy! Why should we blame them for asking for those $millions
to support that humanitarian effort? The TRUE reason is: Because the SWAGGARTS used those
$MILLIONS to line their pockets, live in mansions, fly 4 private jets, drive mercedes and farraries,
eat high of the hog, dress in $5000 dresses and $3000 suits; but they “built 50 schools; Bull Shit!
Why do you KEEP allowing yourselves to get SCAMMED by these SCAMMERS? ALL they want is
your money! I lost my ENTIRE substantial inheritance to these assholes. Is that what you want to do? .
We REALLY NEED TO STOP this CORRUPTION by contacting our Senate and House Reps. If we fail
to follow through with that effort; we have NO ONE else to blame! These SCAMMERS will merely go
on; being bitched about – while SCAMMING the poor and your inheritance as well! We need to SHUT
DOWN Sonlife and the Sawaggart family! Get behind me; as they SCAMMED me out of $480,000!
We REALLY NEED TO STOP this CORRUPTION by contacting our Senate and House Reps. If we fail
to follow through with that effort; we have NO ONE else to blame but ourselves! These SCAMMERS
will merely go on; just being bitched about…- while SCAMMING the poor, or your inheritance like me!
Sending money to the Swaggart family IS NOT A TITHE!!! Give it to your local church or reliable charity!
Giving money to the SWaggarts merely buys new cars, clothes, or new Jets! Their homes are provided
FREE of charge by a tax-free “Parsonage” and WE ALL pay their taxes with our hard earned tax money!
The Swaggarts lie about building schools and churches. They use a guy named Bob Jones in Part au
Prince, Haiti to take pictures of starving kids, and buildings with the Swaggart “flag” on the front of it. The
reality and TRUTH is that the Swaggarts use Bob Jones’ pathetic pictures to SCAM you and others out
of $MILLIONS! And they only sent some $2500.00 out of $2,500,000.00 MILLION to help starving kids!
Just the fact they live tax-free on you; is ENOUGH for these SCAMMERS. YOU OWE them NOTHING! And
their “First Fruit” requests for money will get you NOTHING from God or from the Scamming Swaggarts!
If you don’t like the swaggart family and programming then why waste time postin hateful comments. Your obviously a good Christian and do your part helping people outside of your church. Where in the bible does it say your thiding must stay within your church. The lord says help those all over the world by spreading the gospel and helping those in true need. Your words are venom filled and obviously you haven’t given your life completely to God, if you did you wouldn’t hate on those you know nothing of. Try being humble instead of so self righteous that you’d drown 10 minutes into a rain storm.
Your comment is dripping with irony…chastising someone for arrogance and self-righteousness while defending, and/or being totally oblivious to the king and queen of self-righteous arrogance! It’s laughable!
I am one of those that were touched by the message from this mighty evangelist.what I know is that he is human too,not supper special like we are expecting him to be .Love you my spiritual daddy and l forgive you .
I’ve noticed that Jimmy doesn’t preach much any more. He sings and I like his singing, the arrangements, his piano playing. After all, the guy won an Emmy! I don’t look to the guy for any spiritual guidance. He’s flawed and I think he knows it. Maybe that’s what I like about him; he;s flawed. Aren’t we all? Look at yourself honestly. Do you have secrets? Flaws? Things you don’t want anybody to know about? So does he–and they’ve been made very public. What if your deepest darkest secrets were made public? Would you feel some shame? Of course you would. All of us have those things we wouldn’t want brought into the light of day. He’s been exposed and shamed more than once. So just listen to his singing because it’s good. You don’t need him as a spiritual adviser; you can probably find someone better.
As far as his riches go, he’s a performer. and performers make a lot of money. Don’t contribute if you don’t like that. Religion has always been the biggest money-maker of all. L. Ron Hubbard once said that that there are a lot of ways to make big money, but religion? That’s where the real money is. Have your eyes open and just enjoy Jimmy for what he is–a good gospel singer–and let it go at that.
Speaking only for myself,I cannot even listen to Jimmy sing,let alone preach.The reason? I cannot listen to someone like him play God,and tell me I’m not a Christian because I love Country Music.
Which is what all the Swaggarts to,even though we are told in the bible “Judge not,Lest Ye Be Judged”.The Swaggarts judge.
But George,if you enjoy listening to him sing,that is your right,and I respect that too.