Through the eyes of Abbie Webber- an inside look at JSM

Abbie WebberAbbie Webber is a 16-year-old who is passionate about the Lord and is committed to purity and holiness. The Lord has given her eyes to discern compromise and lack of integrity in those who call themselves the Lord’s. Her mother worked for Jimmy Swaggart Ministries and was fired when she found out about the ungodly things being printed in the ministry print shop. (please see Jimmy Swaggart’s Very Crooked Halo for a detailed explanation) She watched her mother struggle against injustice, set-ups and outright lies.

Abbie was a part of the youth and also friends with many of the bible college students. She witnessed first hand the hypocrisy and compromise of the ministry. Her story is typical of many, but her willingness to come forward and expose it, is anything but typical. Abbie wanted to be given a voice and I thank her for her courage and boldness.

The following is a recorded version of our casual and unscripted conversation.  Download it HERE

 

Comments

  1. Bryan Bramblitt says

    Thanks for this report. I did post this on my Facebook page. I have several devoted JSM friends that I thought needed to hear this interview with Abby. I also would like to apologize to Michelle and Mary Ann both for being skeptical and thinking they were exaggerating their experience at that ministry. But the truth comes out in interviews like this.

  2. says

    I totally understand the “confusion” around the message of the cross that they preach. I had been saved since 1985 and I listened to JSM for 6 years. So I wasn’t coming into this with no understanding of the bible or what it meant to be saved. However, as hard as I tried I simply could not understand what they were saying and the only thing I could take away from this message was this. If you decide to obey the Lord you are in the flesh..you are in works and your sin nature will rise up…I left with the feeling of hopelessness…thinking…why bother. So I found myself just sitting there…doing nothing…feeling victimized by the sin nature…that even resolving to not sin and stepping out in obedience was wrong…this is messed up. I emailed Loren Larson several times asking him to explain this in practical terms…without the Christianese..to simplify it for me..break it down..help me understand. He never responded. Again, it is as if they are saying that being willing to obey and step out in obedience to the Lord is considered works. Perhaps this would explain why so many are living in active sin…they are simply waiting to be zapped and made to obey..dunno..this is all too strange for me. It is not meant to be complicated and that is what JSM has done to the Gospel..complicated it.

    • Steve Meikle says

      if “obedience” and “stepping out in obedience” is forced then it is indeed dead works. Swaggart may be right on this one. (I don’t know him well, he is but a name to me) The question is what he did about it.

      Believing that they were required *of my own initiative* was what led me into legalism of such an extreme kind that I fell into madness and despair and was on welfare for 12 years.

      There is an answer to your questions.

      I learned them the hard way, through decades of suffering. And I mean decades literally. I was converted aged 19, and now I am 54.

      But I will only give my answer here if asked.

      Otherwise there is no point

      • John says

        Steve

        I really don’t understand your post. Can you explain what point your trying to make? Are you saying we don’t have Any choice in the matter as to of we are obedient to God or not?

    • Frank Mattes says

      I had the total opposite experience. After 40 years of false doctrine taught by preachers when I got saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit. It opened my eyes to faith in the precious blood of Jesus. I’m free of drugs and alcohol and have peace of mind and heart like I have never known.

  3. John says

    Jimmy is preaching a recycled version of the old finished work doctrine. Research it and you will see the similarities. His apostolic insight is hardly new, much of the troubles with the old finished work are the troubles with what he presents today. There is no emphasis on living a repentant life and willfully deciding to dedicate yourself to Christ and actively resist sin, actively yield to God and receive the true victorious life that Christ purchased.

  4. mike says

    I know a pastor [sentence ommited by administrator] and all he preached was the message of the cross and he idolized jimmy. well he ended up committing adultery inside the church twice and in the end JSM wont even talk to him anymore they totally abandoned him after he worshiped them and even had the ministers at his church. I myself went to a church that only preached the message of jimmys cross and i ended up leaving do to SIN abounding in the ministry and a worship of JSM. Now that church cant keep people and is constantly lifting themselves and jimmy up instead of Christ.

  5. mike says

    Jimmy did not get a revelation of the message of the cross he stole what the Lord showed Watchman Nee in his book the normal Christian life. Word for word read the book and stop being fooled

    • Mishel says

      I was under the impression that he had stolen it from Dr. Kenneth Wuest- we know that he plaguarized most of his Expositor’s study bible notes from Dakes and was actually taken to court for it. They lie, plain and simple. Frances does not write any of her own articles, John Rosenstern writes them. One only needs to listen to Frances for a few minutes to know that she is not capable of such in-depth analysis.

  6. John says

    Jimmy was taken to court for plagiarizing Dake in some of his commentaries. As far as weust, yes jimmy openly states he studied under him, However Weust is a fairly sound Greek scholar. The totality of Jimmy and his message of the cross teaching leads from probably many areas of confusion. However the base teaching is very much like the finished work doctrine that caused divisions in the Azusa street revival. This was brought in by William Durham. There was no disagreement with the founders of Azusa street and primarily William Seymor that Christ work was a finished work however the split occurred over the application of that redemptive provision. Like jimmy Durham basically said Christ has done it all now everything for me is automatic. Obviously like in the case of JSM this leads to a lax view of sin and when an individual under this teaching does sin, there is not much personal responsibility. I could go on and on with this but basically its a method of suppression of sin instead of sanctification from sin. That’s why I cringe when I hear JSM say that sanctification has not been properly understood in the church until Jimmy got the revelation in 1997. What’s even more sad is that those that blindly follow don’t search the scriptures or church history to see that this claim is absurd.

      • John says

        Most definitely, somewhat along the lines of the reformed theology of old however I think it is probably a little more dangerous. There is an extreme misunderstanding and unbalanced view of Justification. The truth is that of course we are Justified by faith alone and upon repentance and acceptance of Christ. But it seems they have moved to a teaching that sin never truly ceases in the life of a believer. And when we continue in sin it is really no big deal because after all we are justified so we need not condem ourselves just keep putting faith in the cross. The balance of course is that we are not perfect but should have authority and victory over sin in Jesus Christ. And if we do falter and sin thank The Lord we have redemptive provision to confess and be forgiven. 1 John 1:9. However it’s not the lords intention that we remain plaqued by sin because the second part of the verse says he will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is where the antionomian element of the JSM cross message seems to come in, they differentiate between acts of sin and the sin nature, so there conclusion is that even of acts of sin are present in your life the sin nature is still “dormant” as long as your faith remains in the cross. I personally heard one of their prominent preacher say over televisions that if you look at pornagraphy even during the act of this sin the sin nature is not active so long as your faith is in the cross. Wow this is mass confusion, and I don’t say that with a haughty spirit, I say it saddened by the leaven that so many are buying into. If faith in the cross as they teach is the solution to victorious living how can they also state that you can have faith in the cross and simultaneously watch pornagraphy. It seems like according to their perspective of the Gospel we are darned if we do and darned if we don’t. Again that claim came directly from their ministry and I heard it with my own ears. Then shortly after I heard them say that there is no need to confess sin. Wow, now to their credit they have backtracked and pretty much renounced that position. However you can see why their devoted followers are very confused themselves, it’s a case of the bling leading the blind.

    • Bob says

      THOMAS Durham preached the doctrine of Progressive Sanctification, which is one of the 16 Pentecostal Distinctives.

      • Mishel says

        I am not sure what you are trying to say- if you are trying to justify the sin there by saying that sanctification is progressive then you have misinterpreted what was being said. We are talking about a lifestyle of habitual, continual and unrepentant sin that is dismissed by antinomian reasoning.

  7. Joe says

    The Gospel is not complicated, nor does it need a bunch of long drawn out stories to accompany it. The 2nd cause of the death of JESUS is our sin. Repent & Believe, Mark 1:15. Walk with HIM every day and read HIS WORD alone and not anyone else’s, and you will live a victorious overcoming Christian life.

  8. says

    I’m not going to say what I am to start a debate. But I must make a statement for the sake of those who come here seeking answers.

    The confused theology of Mr Swaggart is really not all that surprising, no more surprising than all the other confused and contradictory theologies that exist.

    The confusion comes because most modern theologies are a result of us seeing scripture through the lens of the reformation. We sincerely believe the reformers set the Church back on the course the Lord intended it to be on. In truth they did shed light on what the Roman Church was getting wrong, but they also muddied the waters for us. They rarely agreed with each other and it seems they often modified what they believed, just as we do.

    Christianity is a metamorphosis, of sorts, of Judaism. It didn’t begin with Augustine or Luther, it began with Adam and his covenant with the Lord. It then evolved through the Lord’s covenant relationships with Abraham, Moses, Noah, Israel and so forth. If we want to get the Church back on the tracks, we need to understand those covenants and we need to realize that we are to be in covenant with the Lord today. The blood Jesus shed was the Blood of the Covenant, He is the Lord of the New Covenant.

    If we use the term “justified by faith alone” we rule out many other things Jesus and the apostles taught. I understand why we use that phrase. We don’t want people trying to earn salvation by obeying the ten commandments and not understanding the Gospel. But we can’t dismiss repentance and baptism, two things Peter said we must do to be forgiven, or any other condition scripture teaches us. Repentance and baptism do not earn us anything and without faith are useless, however they are the appropriate and necessary choices to make when we believe. They are essential to beginning a covenant relationship with the Lord. Futhermore, we can’t be saved without faith and continuing faithfulness. (Jesus said if we obey him we will abide in his love.)

    Others may come, after I post this, and give the proof verses that we are saved by faith alone. All I ask is that you just think about every Old Testament covenant and ask yourself if what they are teaching is found in those covenants. Every covenant has had some common conditions: we must have faith, keep that faith and we must be faithful and obedient to the Lord. It’s nothing complicated it’s just making choices to continually believe in him and to continually obey him. Praise God when we stumble, we are able to repent confess our sin and be righteous in His eyes.

  9. The Plain Truth says

    The truth is that the prophesied Messiah would come to fulfill ALL of man’s needs. The true Jews (which were rare then as true Believers are rare today) knew what “Messiah” meant. He would be “Ehud” – ONE God for ALL needs, rather than the many gods of this world.

    When Jesus came, His shed blood meant the fulfillment off that ALL in ONE. His atonement was to provide answer and remedy to all of sin and all of disease – once and for all and yes exclusively. His atonement addressed everything.

    The Apostle Paul delineated that fact very well, yes. But to be sure he was not the first nor was he the only one to understand what Jesus’ death and resurrection had accomplished. Jesus Himself revealed those things to the world – He WASN’T waiting for Paul to reveal them.

    On a quick glance of Jimmy’s theology, one might assume that he knew what the death of Jesus had provided for man. Yet in reality Jimmy is terribly confused and wishy-washy in this area, even though he talks endlessly about it.

    Not only does he extract law from its context (thus promoing antinomianism) but he leaves an entire half of the atonement out – healing through the blood of Jesus alone. The Greek words used for healing are inextricably connected between sins and sickness, yet Jimmy totally ignores this.

    He preaches that going to psychologists means spiritual adultery for the believer. Yet he worships and defends the medical world as though the Blood of Jesus isn’t modern enough for today’s sickness. That is no different from his psychologist “concern”, yet he conveniently slithers out of the fact.

    If he were authentic, he would at least acknowledge the “mark” that we should strive for in this arena, as Smith Wigglesworth did. Instead, Jimmy apparently sets his own marks.

    He is full of confusion on his “cross”, and he has become among the group of men trying so hard to understand truth yet failing to arrive – while a child can see it perfectly.

    Jimmy has completely changed what Jesus did, what He did it for, what He taught, what He desires in his Bride to be, and how he wants His Bride to act. Jimmy’s “cross” has double-crossed the lovely person and work of Jesus Christ, sending His true followers off on a different path. He has become an enemy of the true Cross and Person of Jesus Christ.

    Jimmy’s “Jesus” is a different Jesus, and people need to be alarmed. Seclude yourself with the Word of God, and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you about the Jesus of the Bible. Let the Holy Spirit lead you to a full and abundant and HOLY life with Himself.

  10. says

    JImmy Swaggart is dangerous. May i suggest go to tree of life fellowship.net. Go to the bookstrore and check out the conspiracy of the prophets book. It examins swaggart in detail as well as another wolf called mark driscoll. Then a very important answer is given. On the web site there is also an interview concerning this matter with susan puzzio. God deliver from the great apostate deception.

  11. Connie says

    I confess that I am unable to understand much of what is being said here but the Alcoholic’s Anonymous Big Book states: That some people are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.

  12. Heartbroken :( says

    I am so heartbroken to hear about what has happened to JSM. 🙁 I became a Christian while watching JS on TV in the early eighties, and then a few years later I attended JS Bible college. My experience was very different from what Abbie went through.

    After I became a Christian and before I went to JSBC, I continued watching JS on TV – that was my main form of discipleship as a baby Christian. Thankfully, back then he preached holiness and warned about false doctrine, etc. And in addition to watching the TV show, I use to write Bro. Swaggart and ask him various questions about the Bible. He would always write me back and even send me photocopies of articles that he thought might be of further help to me. (Back then I didn’t understand how busy he was with church and ministry matters. l greatly appreciate that he took the time to answer my questions.)

    Then after high school I went to JSBC. I attended between 1986 and 1988. The students and faculty members were really on fire for God. They had prayer meetings M-F at FWC 5 – 7 am. (They weren’t mandatory, but quite a few students loved going to them.) The Bible classes were on the edge of your seat lessons about the Lord. And even secular subjects, like English and Science, were a blessing because of the love the teachers had for the Lord and what He had called them to do. Chapel services were amazing, with anointed messages from people like David Wilkerson…Then there were also the weekly anointed hall meetings, all night prayer meetings, all day prayer meeting, ministry outreaches, etc.

    Students that strayed away and partied, etc. were expelled. What Abbie experienced was never allowed when I attended there. They had very high standards for the students.

    Also, I’m very sad to hear about this new study Bible that JS put out. When I attended JSBC the students were given the study Bibles he published back in the ’80’s. Very different. Only Jesus’ words were in red. And JS commentary was low/no. Actually I don’t really remember commentary. (Unfortunately, I can’t check because I gave that Bible away years ago.)

    Anyway, every time I encountered Brother Swaggart on the campus, he was always kind and friendly. Both before and after the scandal. However, I didn’t run into to him that often. Maybe once a semester…or once a school year. Very rarely.

    Things were moving forward…and then some cracks began to show. I can’t continue at this time though. Have to go. Hope to get a chance to come back and share my experience at JSBC post scandal. I’ll be keeping JS in prayer. God bless you.

  13. Heartbroken :( says

    Continued – Excuse me, I had to step away before. Anyway,

    A couple of other things I wanted to share about JSM pre scandal – is that it sounds like Crossfire back then was very different too. I had the opportunity to visit a Crossfire service meeting once and it was the best youth group I’ve ever witnessed. The young people were wonderfully transformed by the power of God and encouraged to share their faith with others. At that time the youth group leader was Glen Berteau. (I think that’s how he spelled his last name.) He would have welcomed someone like Abbie who wanted to go out and share the good news with others.

    I also don’t want to give the impression that JSBC was perfect. It wasn’t. There were some issues. But overall it was wonderful. And compared to what WEBC sounds like now, JSBC was almost like a heaven on earth. A few flaws, but an on fire for God institution and where people really loved each other. Matter of fact, WEBC doesn’t even sound like the same school. It sounds like a very different school. It seems like more than just the name of the school changed.

    Anyway, the first sign of a problem I recall is when word spread on campus that JS and David Wilkerson had a disagreement. DW told JS that he needed to slow down – spend more time with the Lord, spend more time with his wife, etc. And JS felt like he couldn’t slow down. He felt like he had to keep all the balls in the air. He had to keep juggling the church, the college, TV, crusades, answering letters from the viewers, etc. So he kept going. Too bad he didn’t heed DW’s warning. (Matter of fact there’s a sermon posted on YouTube by Jim Cymbala about what transpired between Brother Wilkerson and Brother Swaggart.)

    Also, JS did ask us in chapel one day to pray for him because he was struggling with something, but he didn’t say what it was. And around that time another speaker told us about how he was traveling on a plane somewhere and he was sitting next to a lady who was praying. He asked her if she was a Christian and she said no. She said she was a witch and that every week they (the witches in her group) pray and fast for Christian leaders to fall into immorality. Another incident that circulated on campus was that someone found Frances Swaggart sitting by herself, sitting in the dark at FWC, crying. We didn’t know why.

    And then it happened -the weekend that changed everything. I believe it was on either Thursday/Friday night and the students were called downstairs – into the common area I think where a TV had been set up. They wanted us to watch a news show. It was the allegations that Brother Swaggart had been caught with a prostitute. We were shocked! A number of the students decided to have a prayer meeting to pray against what they believed were false allegations against our chancellor. I didn’t feel led to join. Instead I went back to my dorm room and poured my heart out to the Lord. I had hoped that the allegations were false. But I decided even if they are true – Jesus died for me and not JS. As much as I loved JS, I had to keep my focus on Jesus.

    Then Sunday came and JS admitted his sins in church and before the whole world. I remember one of my friends who sat next to me, grabbed my arm and said something like, “He did not say what he just said, did he?” And I responded “Yes, he did.” We were shocked and sad. I remember as we walked out of the church that day seeing a schoolmate just sitting there in a daze, looking straight ahead. I think a number of us felt like if someone like JS could fall what will happen to us.

    I so wanted him to be restored in the Lord. After one Sunday service I approached him and just shared with him briefly how I had gotten saved watching his show. He smiled, gave me a big hug. Friendly as always – whenever I encountered him. Also, he explained to the students that everyone came to him with their struggles, and he felt like he couldn’t go to anyone with his problems. Too bad he didn’t confide in DW. I’m sure he would have helped his friend.

    I really hoped he was now in the state of spiritual renewal. But then he decided not to follow the AOG’s recommendation for him to step out of the pulpit for like two years while he received counseling, etc. Even though I loved Brother Swaggart, I disagreed with his decision. And I felt like there was a double standard. Students who fell into sin were kicked out of school immediately. And I think they couldn’t reapply to the college for like two years. I felt like he should have done the same thing. But once again he seemed to have the mindset that he had to keep all of the balls in the air. Too bad he just didn’t say, “Yes, AOG leaders I really do need a break. A time to get delivered and renewed in my walk with the Lord.” Too bad he didn’t trust the Lord to take care of JSM while he was away, realizing his personal relationship with God was more important than the ministry. I think had he followed the AOG’s ruling then he wouldn’t have fallen a second time in the early 90’s.

    More recently I discovered that JS is on TV again. And I thought, “Oh, great. Perhaps he’s now in a better place spiritually. Maybe his ministry is smaller, but it’s more important that he’s back on track with Jesus. Then I came across JS and JSBC videos on YouTube. Some of it was great – bringing back great memories of my college days. I saw an episode of Frances and Friends that also sounded really good. She and the panel talked about the dangers of worldly music in the church. But then I came across other videos that were sad and very concerning. One was a message given by Stephen Dollins. He’s a former Satanist, now a born again Christian. And he said that Satanists wanted to kill JS, but they couldn’t because the Lord was protecting him, so they set him up with the prostitute to destroy his ministry.

    More concerning is where he’s at now. I was very sad to hear about his doctrinal changes, etc. It sounds like the exact opposite of how he use to preach. It caused me to do further research on this matter, which is how I came across this website. It’s so heartbreaking and I’ll definitely be keeping him in prayer.

  14. Mary says

    If you listen to Jimmy teach on the message of the cross, he never explains it theologically. He just talks around it and more often than not get off into stories about himself or some relative. Actually, the cross (death of Christ for our sins) and the resurrection (new life IN Christ) go together. They cannot be separated. In Romans 6 we find that the Christian experience is symbolized in baptism. We die with Christ, we are raised to newness of life in Him. We are to count ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God. Our life is in the living Christ. We are NOT to hang around the cross. That is false teaching. How can you teach, on one hand, being baptized in the Spirit, which is the life of the risen Christ, which gives us power to be transformed into His image, and at the same time teach we are to live camped out at the cross, in His death? Also, I do not believe it proper to take the Bible and interject all your own teachings throughout in red letters, as though your teaching has as much weight as the inspired Word of God. It is the Spirit Who is our teacher and the words of Scripture should be free of the infringement of anyone who would add to or take away from it.

    • Patricia says

      Thank you Mary! You put into words what I have thought about JS’s sermons and his Expositor’s Study Bible. I found that when I read the Expositor’s Study Bible, I became confused and found myself giving up and questioning all that the Holy Spirit has taught me in the past. I began doubting my salvation because my thoughts were not lining up with what the Swaggarts teach.

      This year I have committed myself to not reading the Expositor’s Study Bible and returning to what I did prior to finding the SonLife Broadcasting Network. I do still enjoy the music and Francis & Friends, but that show is becoming more and more The Donnie Swaggart Show.

      He never lets anyone else answer questions and always acts as though he is the only one who knows anything of the Bible. He makes me angry more times than not because of his pious attitude. He refuses to admit that he has been divorced. They seem to forget that when SBN first aired, they aired old videos that show his 2nd wife, Judy, sitting right beside him on stage. It’s also strange that they never air the old videos anymore. I know that isn’t a big deal to most, but I find it being deceitful. He is always bragging about his 40 year marriage but NEVER talks about the second wife. Like I stated, he is to pious to admit that he is a sinner just like we are!!

      Anyone who happens upon this site, please listen. You do not need anyone to teach you the Word of God. The Holy Spirit will teach you when you approach Him with an opened and willing heart. No man is perfect and knows everything. Be careful who you give your heart too. Be honest with yourself and open your heart to the Lord and He will lead you to where you need to be.

      The Swaggart family are not perfect and will one day have to answer for what they have done, whether it good or bad. I do not hate or dislike them. I will continue praying for them, but will no longer support their ministry.

      God Bless!

  15. shilo says

    Even the Apostolics have a study bible simular to jsm study bible. Its a study bible no different if you read other books to help with your study. You just need to stay connected to the bible and there are so many bible translations out there, some leave out scripture.

  16. Jo-Ann says

    Patricia you hit the nail on the head, I thought I was the only one who noticed it regarding Donnie on Frances and friends, the man is an egomaniac, As far as I’m concerned Frances and friends doesn’t need a panel of ministers to reason together with, as you said Patricia it should be the Donnie Swaggert show, it really gets on my nerves how someone one can be so prideful.
    Another thing I don’t know why they think they are the ones who thought of the ” Message of the Cross” The “Message of the Cross” is basically the Gospel of Jesus Christ, plain and simple, Jimmy needs to stop going around acting as through it was his Idea (adding and taking away from the WORD and putting his spin on it) and God only gave him this message to preach to the world.
    Bottom line the whole JSM Jimmy, Donnie, Frances are all scam artists, poor Gabriel he seems brain washed, for some reason I do believe he knows the truth.
    I am so grateful for Mishel and others that are stepping up to the plate and showing how evil and deceptive this ministry really is.
    I pray your strength Mishel, in the lord and I’m with you all the way in bringing forth GOD”S truth to his people.

    Blessings to you,
    Jo-Ann

  17. Jon Ciotti says

    I’ve been watching SBN for a few months now and some of the teachings from JS has helped me with my walk with the Lord. The a few weeks ago I began seeing and hearing things that disturbed me. I started watching “The Message Of The Cross” and what I found is wanting them to explain the message of the cross but what the pannel would do is read a couple verses and then go into a verbal tear down of everyone and every denomination that disagreed with them and their message of the cross. I mean 90% of the show was just that. So then started watching “Study In The Word” and the same thing would happen and I would end up yelling at my tv screen saying, just minister the message and quit tearing everyone down. I did start watching “Francis & Friends” but it would become the Donnie show and the way he came across was the same way he preached, like it was all about him and look at me. A few days ago I’m watching and someone writes in asking this question, “if a Jewish person becomes saved are they still Jewish and if a Gentile gets saved are they still a Gentile” and little Donnie says, that’s the most ridiculas question I’ve ever heard. So I wrote in saying, people write in questions because they don’t know and who are you to make fun of them on tv, with that attitude people will be afraid of asking a question in fear of being made fun of….great job Donnie. I can’t watch his preaching anymore with his false crying. The last time I watched him I asked the Lord why he acts the way he does and the Lord said, its a spirit of pride. The message of the cross is simple, which I got a year after being saved. Before the fall Adam and Eve was provided everything they would ever need, that changed after the fall, Jesus was called the second Adam, so at the cross He put everything back like it was in the beginning, everything we need has already been provided for us do to Christ being crucified and His ressurection sealed the deal.

  18. Jo-Ann says

    LOL, the holy spirit is right regarding Donnie Swaggert, I have always sensed an air of arrogance coming from him, It’s important that as the body of Christ we use discernment. You shall know them by there fruit.

  19. Jon Ciotti says

    I need to say something regarding the message of the cross. I was saved in August 1991 and the we attended was pentecostal. At the time I didn’t know anything about Pentecost or being baptized with the Holy Spirit but as I continued to attend this fellowship all that they were teaching just made sense. It was also during that time that I learned about the cross of Christ and everything we will ever need has already been provided at the cross. So what JSM is preaching is 100% right on target. As far as some things that have gone in and continue to go on I’m not there so I don’t know if it is or isn’t going on, but what I do know is since I’ve been listening to the message of the cross, JSM has been able to enlighten me much more. It’s kind of like in the early 90’s I was given this message but my pastor didn’t go into deep details about the cross like JSM has done for me. Bottom line for me is as long as I’m being ministered to and it lines up with the word of God and I’m learning that’s all that matters, God is God and He can use anything or anyone to bring His message out to His church.

  20. Rob miller says

    I was watching the message of the cross the other day and it seem to be more about how their ministry was of God and I said if your ministry is of God then you don’t need to say it it will be evident I want to write them and tell him listen stop at self-aggrandizing and preach the word don’t tell us how your ministry is of God let your ministry shine and God will show us that the ministry is of him

  21. Wally Ballew says

    I have a hard time understanding “once saved, always saved” if a believer turns out to be a sinner of great magnitude–commits murder or rape or any of the major sins. It also seems that on Francis and Friends there is no central authority. Each panelist or minister is his or her own pope. Who’s right and why? The only one who seems to have all his marbles in John Rosenstern, I suspect some day he will cross the Tiber and become Catholic. He’s too smart to be stuck with JSM.

    • Tom says

      LOL, John’s too smart become a Roman Catholic and Christ is THE central authority for EVERY believer and we are each to “work out our own salvation” and no a “true believer” will not engage in murder, rape, or “big sins” repeatedly. Will we fail? YEP, but we are not to LIVE A LIFE OF CONTINUAL SIN

    • Tom says

      LOL, John’s too smart become a Roman Catholic and Christ is THE central authority for EVERY believer and we are each to “work out our own salvation” and no a “true believer” will not engage in murder, rape, or “big sins” repeatedly. Will we fail? YEP, but we are not to LIVE A LIFE OF CONTINUAL SIN without repentance.

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