JSM- Masters of the Sweep

Three years ago I moved from North Carolina to Baton Rouge to begin a job as Webmaster for Jimmy Swaggart Ministries. I did not know much about the ministry, but I needed a job and the idea of working for a ministry seemed appealing. The Swaggart’s seemed nice enough at first, but I was soon to find out that this kindness was only offered in exchange for my complete loyalty and subjection to totalitarian-like control.

In the days and weeks after moving to Baton Rouge, I was perplexed at the oddity of my everyday encounters with ministry employees. People seemed burdened and stressed. When smiles were given, they were the stiff and sterile kind, not the kind that invades your face, and crinkles your eyes. In my mind it should have been the most joy filled environment in the world to work in and the lack of levity concerned me. People seemed guarded and paranoid, and never spoke of the Swaggarts without lowering their voice and quickly looking around to see who might be listening. People seemed particularly fearful of Frances. I remember it was at times like this that I would defend her. “Oh really”, I would gush, “she is really the nicest person and has been so kind to me”. They would stare back at me unblinking, with cold, dead eyes. I could see I was not convincing them. I could also see that it was not up for discussion.

I still remember someone entering my office and commencing to talk to me in a barely audible voice. I laughed and said, “What, do you think it’s bugged”? They looked at me dead serious and said, “Well, it wouldn’t be the first time”. I wondered then, just who, or what, I had become involved in.

The three years I spent there were three of the hardest years of my life. My sentence came to an abrupt end when I was fired unceremoniously along with four other people. The only thing that tied all four of us together was an unsolicited email that had been sent to my work address which outlined some highly offensive material that was being printed in the ministry’s print shop. Being masters of the sweep, it was important for them to silence the voice of anyone that knew, lest they infect others with the truth. At Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, it seems that being righteous is not nearly as important as looking righteous.

In the days that followed, the print-shop worker who had been so outraged over what he had been asked to print decided to talk to Jimmy. He was still under the impression that Jimmy did not know. He believed, as I had for so long, that somehow there was a rogue element loose in the ministry perpetrating these things without Swaggart’s knowledge. I felt compassion for him as I knew that when the acid of truth ate through his wall of denial, it would be particularly painful. It was.

If I could count the number of people who said to me in my three years there that there was something not right. There was too much secrecy, too much control of information. By controlling the information an individual has, they limit the person’s ability to think for themselves. Individuality is not prized at JSM and is targeted for special treatment. This special treatment involves isolation, shunning, and coercive persuasion. It is a process designed to break a person’s individuality and replace it with their cloned group-think. If a person still does not bend, then an artfully crafted piece of gossip is skillfully inserted into the grapevine to destroy the person’s character. They have it down to an art form. I watched it happen to others, and I experienced the pain, frustration, and humiliation of it, when it happened to me.

Most people cave in and conform. Faced with forces they feel unable to escape from, they adapt. They learn to anticipate problems and manipulate events to avoid self-incrimination. It is hard to even realize it is happening to you when you don’t know who your enemy is. Your enemy seems like they are your very best friend and advocate and only have your very best interests at heart.

At Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, people come to expect humiliation, isolation, ostracism and punishment, because they can never live up to the ideal. Since they set themselves up to be the ultimate judge of good and evil, their employees live in a state of constant fear of failure, fear of being fired, and constant guilt and shame over perceived wrongs they may have committed against the organization. It does not help that the rules seem to constantly change or that there are two sets of rules.

On more than one occasion when I was being given a particularly coercive talk about my absence from church, Frances remarked that she knew me better than I knew myself. Odd, since scripture clearly states that no one but God can know the heart of man. She was setting herself up to be Holy Spirit to me, to lead me and guide me in the ways she deemed righteous. It did not seem to matter to her that attending church there was never made a condition of my employment, nor did it matter that there were many people employed there who did not go to church at all, including members of her own extended family. When I told Frances that there were many “unsaved” people who worked there she looked at me coldly and said, “Well that is different, they are unsaved and they don’t go to church anywhere.” Clearly in her eyes it was better to be unsaved than to be saved and not go to their church.

After my own experience, I began to search through online material and books to see what others had experienced. I knew that the mistreatment of those in their employ had to be a pattern. In some ways, what I found was therapeutic. Reading the experiences of others and knowing that I was not alone, that many others had experienced similar mistreatment, was somehow affirming. For obvious reasons, one of the first sources I looked at was award-winning investigative journalist John Camp. Although certainly not the focus of his investigations, he describes some instances that to those of us who have been at the receiving end, seem all too familiar.

In his book, Odyssey of a Derelict Gunslinger, John B. Camp describes how he initially became interested in digging deeper into Jimmy Swaggart Ministries. He describes what he refers to as a “sad-faced truck driver” showing up at his office who complained that he and his wife had been fired unjustly.

“The man drove one of the eighteen-wheeler rigs that transported television production equipment, gospel recordings and a variety of religious merchandise to Swaggart’s twice-monthly crusades.

The couple had relocated from the Midwest for the specific purpose of becoming helpmates of Jimmy and Jesus. She worked in the warehouse that processed the ministry’s huge mail-order business. However, she was labeled a trouble-maker after complaining of sexual harassment by a supervisor, and the couple was fired.”

Not long after, Camp had a mid-level manger arrive at his office who complained about “Jimmy’s arbitrary and unchristian-like treatment.” He gave Camp a stack of internal memoranda that suggested that “the ministry’s top three executives- Jimmy, his wife Frances and their son, Donnie, were overbearing micro-managers consumed with minutiae.”

Camp goes on to explain that initially he was not interested in doing a piece on what amounted in his mind to, “internal whining”, but also did not want to overlook a story that had essentially been handed to him.

“I started to contact other disaffected former employees. The complaints were much the same- people disillusioned by the perceived arrogance of Brother Jimmy and his family.”

Camp was still not satisfied that he had a story worth pursuing until he met George Jernigan, Swaggart’s former Director of Finance. Not surprisingly, Jernigan had been fired for urging Swaggart to be frank in his fund-raising appeals. The controversy primarily involved Swaggarts misappropriation of funds gathered through emotional appeals in which pictures of emaciated African children were shown to garner the empathy (and cold hard cash) of his Christian viewers. According to Jernigan, contributions were not going to the Children’s Fund but were being siphoned into the general account. Only pennies on the dollar were actually being spent in the feeding of starving children.

In, Odyssey of a Derelict Gunslinger, Camp describes his encounter with Jernigan.

“George Jernigan was not the kind of guy to maliciously spread gossip. Tall and slender with a rounded beard sans mustache, his posture and deliberate manner gave him the appearance of a stern Amish farmer. He remained almost reverently subdued in criticizing his former employer, once interrupting my questioning to pray for guidance before answering. …. After prayerful meditation, Jernigan told me of the ministry’s extravagant spending, and explained how contributions of jewelry and other goods were converted for personal use by the Swaggart family. His biggest criticism was directed at a fund-raising gimmick called the ‘Children’s fund.’”

When Jernigan complained to Swaggart about the misrepresentations, he was unceremoniously fired. In speaking at a tape-recorded staff meeting not long after the firing of Jernigan, Swaggart had this to say.

“Some of the Brothers here have questioned my judgment. Let me set the record straight. I have forgotten more about administration and organization and business than most of you will ever learn. I know what I’m doing. I probably know more about what I am doing than any man you’ve ever laid eyes on in your life. Don’t ever think I don’t know what I am doing. Somebody talks about the chain of command and you’re looking at the whole chain, every link in it.”

Camp also describes an encounter with the ministry’s former Director of Spiritual Counseling, Noble Scroggins. Scroggins recounted an incident involving an elderly woman who wrote that she and her sisters had fallen on hard times and were barely existing on their meager social security checks.

“The sisters were contributors to fundraising appeals to feed starving children. But facing hard times, they were unable to fulfill pledges. The letter asked if it would be sinful to commit suicide so that proceeds of their life insurance policies could go to the Children’s Fund.”

Scroggins ran to Swaggart’s office expecting him to immediately call the woman and dissuade her from any suicidal ideation. Instead, Swaggart casually set the letter aside. Scroggins resigned.

In an article that appeared in the December 1986 edition of Spin magazine, a Swaggart executive described scores of ministry employees being subjected to lie detector tests when it was suspected that someone was leaking information to John Camp. If the ministry had nothing to hide, why take such extreme and invasive measures against employees. If a person has nothing to hide then generally, they hide nothing. What were they afraid was going to be exposed? The truth?

According to a ministry executive who took the test, passed, but later resigned, overweight ministry employees were subjected to mandatory weight loss programs in order to keep their jobs.

“Frances got on this kick,” he said, “that everybody was too fat, so she made everybody go on this mandatory weight-loss program. The incentive was, you got to keep your job- so many people took it very seriously and got very upset.”

He got the message that Frances Swaggart thought it was un-Christian to look fat. He adds, “Frances had been rubbing elbows with the jet set for such a long time that she felt that everybody needed to shape up.” Spin Magazine, December 1986 edition.

Interestingly enough, in the book, Swaggart: The Unauthorized Biography of an American Evangelist by Ann Rowe Seaman, the incident is also mentioned.

“In early 1985 she [Frances] instituted a weight policy explaining that it has something to do with insurance rates. Everybody had to go down the basement and stand in line to be weighed once a month. There were departmental competitions and individual “losers” were recognized in chapel; big losers got to travel with Jimmy and Frances to the next crusade.

The explanation about insurance rates appeared to be a fiction when the Bible college students were also pressured to lose weight. And of course there was favoritism said Larry Thomas- “If a four-dollar-an-hour employee got fat, there was pressure to lose weight. If a family member or a very, very valuable employee got fat there was no pressure.”

I believe when Frances hires someone she truly believes she owns them, all of them; from the thoughts in their head to the flesh on their bones.

In Seaman’s book she describes an incident in which a long time producer is fired by Frances after being seen shaking the hand of a former JSM pastor who had started a rival church. When a television engineer dared to question the unfair termination, he too was fired. A group of employees then went to Frances to protest the terminations.

“Jimmy…. heard the ruckus and came through the [connecting] door,” said an ex-television cameraman for the ministry. He pointed to one of the employees and asked if the ministry had ever done anything to hurt her. Yes she said.

“You’re fired!” said Jimmy. Then he turned to another and asked him the same question. The answer was yes. “You’re fired!” said Jimmy. Frances honor had to be protected. “She was still his wife,” said the ex-cameraman. “Love or hate he had to take up for her.” Swaggart: The Unauthorized Biography of an American Evangelist, Ann Rowe Seaman

An interesting book to peruse should you be fortunate enough to find a copy, is Jimmy Swaggart, Dead Man Rising, by the late Barbara Nauer. The book is out of print and copies on Ebay or Amazon are cost prohibitive to say the least. I tracked down a copy at the Louisiana State Library and although not able to withdraw the book, I was able to photocopy it. Because I realize that most readers will not be sufficiently interested enough to stand in a downtown library and stuff quarters into a copy machine, I have extracted a few items of interest.

Barbara Nauer worked as Jimmy’s editor for several years. Her book is well written, easy to read, and clearly illustrates the ministry’s cavalier attitude towards its underlings. In the incident that follows, she describes the dissolution of a successful ministry outreach and the subsequent ill-treatment of its faithful employees.

“The bus ministry had been for several years the impressive spiritual work of several of Swaggart’s “young lions”. These were bright young ministers, graduates of Jimmy Swaggart’s Bible College, who with their wives and girlfriends, young women just as committed as they were, had designed and put into operation the bus ministry’s impressive program of games, skits, meals, musicals, outings and preachings for the disadvantaged kids.

Of late the young ministers had been running a parallel mid-week ministry to the parents of their regular weekend kids. They had the Academy schoolteachers volunteering to teach reading and writing to those ghetto parents who wished to learn these skills……Anyone familiar with this youth-driven charitable outreach was faintly in awe of it.

….As one pair of middle-aged chaperones for the buses put it, the mere fact that, week after week, the ghetto children sat still for hours, listening to preachings and watching Christian morality plays, “could make you believe in God”.

Nauer then goes on to say that it was suddenly and inexplicable over. In a single weekend the bus ministry was wiped out, the fleet of buses sold, and the Tucker Building, which had housed the bus ministry, rented out.

She further explains how the morale among employees plummeted as they realized that without warning, these young ministers were turned out into an impossibly tight job market. Nauer was further distressed to find out that the ministry had no intentions of giving the suddenly unemployed young ministers letters of reference. Thinking this must surely be an oversight, she went to Frances and offered to draft a form letter on her lunch hour which could be issued in Frances name. This way, at least the young men would be armed with a job reference in their formidable search for employment. Baton Rouge was known to have one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation at that time, and the job market was virtually impenetrable.

“Even as I spoke, I could tell that Jimmy’s wife was at a loss to imagine why such an exercise as I was describing might be called for. At length, Mrs. Swaggart flicked a hand as if brushing a fly away from her eyes. “Oh Barbara, that’s not important. Go back to what you were doing.”

Frances was clearly unconcerned. Not surprising for any of us that have had more than a fleeting encounter with her.

Quite honestly, I can say from my own personal experience that I have seen more people fired in my three years at JSM than I have in all my working years, and in all my jobs combined. The turnover rate is astronomical. It is not required by law in Louisiana to give a reason for dismissal and at JSM, reasons are seldom given. One would think they would aspire to ascribe to a higher law, but in their minds they are the law. Employee’s questions are simply met with, “you know why you are being fired” or “I don’t have to tell you.”

In the corporate world people are nearly always terminated for justifiable and measurable reasons. It would be unfathomable for a major corporation to refuse an employee a reason for dismissal. They do this for the development of the person they are firing! Several warnings, both oral and written are given well in advance of the termination and employees are never left to guess what the terminable offence might have been. How much more would we expect fairness from a “Christian” organization?

The day I was terminated I sat while Frances read the “confidentiality” agreement to a fellow employee. When I asked why I was being fired she stated “I don’t have to tell you” in a sing-song voice then smiled like the Cheshire cat, a smug little smile. It was literally the response a spoiled five-year old child would have given. She did not give a reason because there wasn’t one; at least not one that would have been justifiable in anyone’s eyes but hers. At JSM, terminable offences were rarely performance based but rather based on paranoia and a maniacal need for control and unbridled loyalty. That loyalty includes covering up the things they do. Sorry, but my loyalty ends there. My soul is not for sale.

Since the ministry is a non-profit organization they are not required to participate in the unemployment insurance program. Nor, might I add, do they pay into any benefits for their employees. Terminated employees are left completely without a means to provide for themselves or their families. A significant portion of ministry employees, live on ministry grounds in the Bluebonnet Towers. The Towers are owned by the ministry, but rooms and apartment units are also rented to the general public. Many employees are terminated only to come home and find that they have also been evicted. There are no leases at Bluebonnet Towers and rentals are month to month. Precisely, I presume, in order to exercise this kind of control. Evicted tenants are given thirty days to vacate legally, but stories abound of instances where tenants have been given a day or less.

It is criminal in my mind that an organization that purports to care so much about saving the lost, cares so little about the found. It is unimaginable how they could fire someone and evict them in the same day. How would they even hope to secure alternate living arrangements? Who would rent an apartment to an unemployed person? Many who have come from out of State to work, are left abandoned, and in desperate straits. There most certainly will not be any help for these unfortunate souls from Family Worship Center. The shunning and dis- fellowshipping of former employees is openly encouraged and the ministry is most certainly not known for its charity.

I have always had a heart for the homeless. Within months of arriving in Baton Rouge, I remember reading that the city’s homeless shelter was in desperate need of sheets. I went to Frances and asked if we could put this need in the bulletin. Surely there were people in the congregation that would donate sheets to the shelter. I assured her that I would collect the sheets and take them to the shelter on behalf of the church. She looked at me with a disgusted and almost incredulous look. “Uhh”, she spat out hatefully, “those people just need to get jobs”.

No, there is certainly no charity at Jimmy Swaggart Ministries.

Recently, I spoke to a young man, Danny Wright, who had worked in donor services, attended the Bible College, and played drums for the Crossfire Worship Band. His mother had recently passed in a tragic accident and he was struggling both spiritually and emotionally. He went to a friend’s house where he consumed alcohol. Three months later he was suddenly called to account for it. He was expelled from the college, ousted from the band, and fired from his job. Had he been unfortunate enough to live at Bluebonnet Towers, he would have been evicted too. The ironic thing is that a very high proportion of the students go to the bars, drink and party. A fact that is well-known by most who work there. When the young man brought this up to his accusers, Gabriel Swaggart himself admitted that yes, there was a great deal of that occurring, but they were there to discuss him. Danny further stated to Gabriel that if the ministry were to pursue everyone in this manner, they would literally have to fire everyone under the age of thirty, save two.

When he recounted his story to me he paused, lowered his head and said, “Maybe if I had been caught with a prostitute they would have had grace for me. Maybe then I could have been forgiven”. He then looked up and added. “You would think that they, of all people, would know a little something about grace and forgiveness”. I will never forget that conversation.

Another eye-opening and gut wrenching first hand account of employee abuse comes from former band member Kerry Rhys. Kerry and his wife Allison-Collins Rhys were both employed by the music department at Jimmy Swaggart Ministries. While I do not know them personally, I am familiar with their story. In a personal blog entry entitled, “For those who have written and asked why”, Kerry describes how both he and his wife were terminated from the ministry.

“One day a surprise meeting for the entire music department was called, mandatory attendance for all employees. As we (about 25 employees) sat waiting to see what it was about, Frances Swaggart walked in and proceeded to interrogate us about things that someone told her were being said. Allison was not mentioned during this time. At the end, Robin stood up and said pretty unexpectedly “Allison you’ve made some very bad decisions”. A little confused as Allison and I had no clue to what was going on, Robin said “a married couple here has been coming to me on a regular basis telling me you are saying things about the ministry. It’s happening often and I think where there is smoke there is fire”. We wouldn’t find out what he was talking about until two years later.

A week after the group meeting with Frances and Robin’s cryptic statement, Allison got a phone call and was read a memo over the phone by Nikki Tracy that she had been terminated from JSM. I was fired by association with no explanation. Allison was five months pregnant at this time, we had no idea what we would do for money.”

He goes on to explain how his wife was later called in to Frances office and told that it was all a misunderstanding. She was instead placed on suspension without pay which lasted seven months. Debts were mounting as they continued to assure her week after week that it would soon be worked out and she would be hired back.

“At this time Swaggart insisted she meet with Robin, that she would only be hired back if Robin approved. She met with Robin, he told her he did not want her back but she managed to grovel, cry, and beg enough to get her job back. Upon returning to work she was told that the salary which she was initially offered would no longer be paid. At this point she was paid less than half of what many others were paid. A huge cut in salary. I was hired back full-time a few months later, also for half of my former salary. Our take home pay was now below the poverty level for just one individual, much less two adults supporting three children.”

Their debts continued to mount until they found themselves faced with the final notice for legal foreclosure on their home. They were given ten days before their home would be sold at a sheriff’s auction and needed to come up with two months mortgage plus legal costs. Desperate for money, Allison agreed to sing with her husband, Bob Henderson, and Jeremy Downey at a local club. When Frances found out, Kerry and Allyson were fired. While I understand that they had agreed to not sing secular music while working for the ministry, it was common knowledge that others had been doing the very same for a very long time while the Swaggart’s looked the other way.

Before I woke up the next morning Allison had received a call that she was terminated from the ministry. Bob and Jeremy were also said to have been fired by Robin. When I woke up Jeremy was already over at our house. While sitting on our couch Robin called Jeremy and I listened on the speaker phone when Robin told Jeremy that he and Bob would not be fired….only Allison.

…….We’ve had people tell us they have approached Frances to ask what happened to Allison and her answer was “Allison decided she wanted to go do her own thing”. The truth is she was fired after being set up by people in the church, suspended for seven months without pay, then hired back for a fraction of her original salary. Then fired after she sang two songs with other church musicians that were kept on at the ministry.

Recently I had the privilege of taking at great length with Tareva Henderson about her experiences at the ministry. Someone had sent me a link to a letter she had written to a website that had been openly critical of her. She was warm and unpretentious. Her experiences there were all too familiar; the isolation and shunning, the brainwashing, it was like hearing my own experiences through someone else’s lips.

I went there years ago after the downfall around 2003 only to help my brother because he told me the music department was in a mess and falling apart. I had plans to move to Florida so I offered to sub part-time and do some tunes to help because I never get to see my brother. They offered me a huge salary to take a full-time leadership position over the stage. I declined because my Florida plans were in place and the longer I hung around to sub I just saw too much that broke my heart. …..

The place was empty and sad and a spirit of oppression ran across the building because no one trusted each another or anyone else. Workers were miserable and were constantly asking me “how do you get out of here”?? It blew me away at first because they made it sound like a prison. As time went by I saw it was…………i.e. people’s jobs and families were threatened if they didn’t go along with all the games…..

Once I tried to help a girl with a newborn that was stranded in BR because she came in from out-of-town to a camp meeting and her car broke down. I took her over to the dorms and they said “send her to the salvation army we run this like a business not a ministry”. I ended up paying for her a room that night. I looked everywhere in the place to find something that felt “Christ Like” but it was nowhere.

The dooms about divorce was always preached then Donnie’s “second” marriage is to a girl that’s been divorced five times, and the married couples working there cheating on one another with other employees; Families turning against one another like enemies of war over money and who is right…

…People often ask me, “Why don’t you work there”? They play me often on their radio and TV shows to raise big money. At the time I was there, I didn’t even know I was being recorded, then I later talked to other singers who encountered the same experience.

…I don’t believe in selling salvation, then or now or ever. Tareva Henderson

Tareva related to me that when she was first asked to work for the music department she told Jimmy Swaggart that she did not believe as he did, as she was a Unitarian. He looked at her and said, “Well, we are willing to look the other way on that.” Later in the conversation she related an incident that had left her shaken. She had a book on the seat in her car that was perhaps not the type of spiritual material that the ministry would have approved of. Although I did not ask, I would imagine that it was a book that might be more in line with her beliefs. Beliefs I might add, that she made plain to the ministry before she was hired. One of the ministry spies (and there are always multitudes jockeying for this position), happened to see the book in Tareva’s car and went to Frances. Frances in turn called Tareva in, and started questioning her about the types of books she liked to read. Initially she did not know what the inquiry was about and seemed confused as to why Frances would be so interested in her choice of reading material. Slowly it dawned on her that someone must have spied the book on the seat of her car. Frances asked her to bring her the book and Tareva complied by retrieving the book and handing it over. Frances then demanded that Tareva go home and retrieve any and all such books and bring them to her so they could be destroyed.

This kind of maniacal control is legendary and quite mind bending if you happen to be on the receiving end of it. I was, on more than one occasion, asked to remove things from my own website. The first time occurred after someone had written something non-complimentary about the Swaggarts on my forum. I had at that time defended the Swaggarts but left the comment intact. I had never made it a practice to remove posts from my forum whether I agreed with them or not. That was the whole idea of a having a forum! Frances called me to her office and told me to remove it. I complied. It was crystal clear to me early on, that refusal was not an option.

The second time occurred after I posted an article to my website that she did not agree with. Ironically enough, it had been written by a JSM minister under an anonymous name. She not only demanded I remove it, but also demanded I give her the name of the person who wrote it. I refused. I knew full well that she knew who it was. The game seemed pointless to me. She knew who it was, I knew she knew, but still she pressed. I refused on principle alone, but did remove the article. What choice did I have?

It has taken these two months since my departure to get over the feeling of being under constant surveillance. It was fascinating to me to read in Nauer’s book that others had remarked about this very same thing. When I came here, the ministry had one paltry and disjointed website. Their web presence was virtually non-existent. In my three years under their employ, I created and maintained six ministry websites, effectively establishing their online presence and catapulting them into prominence in the search engines. In return, I was fired without cause, with no severance pay, no ability to collect unemployment insurance, and certainly no letter of reference. This has placed me in a precarious situation since I am alone in Baton Rouge, my closest family residing in Canada. Regardless, there has only been one inquiry by anyone associated with the ministry since my departure. Of one thing I am certain, Jimmy Swaggart Ministries is and never was, my provider. I serve a loving God, whose Grace is sufficient, and His provisions astounding. Selah.

Comments

  1. Jim Mettenbrink says:

    I always thought the “devil was in the details.” Looks like he is at the top.

    • I am not sure I understand what you mean.

    • Wolves in sheepskins. I know the type all too well. They are devils. They are pharisees who are obsessed with appearing outwardly good. I thought this particular brand of evil was just local, as in my own family, but lo, it seems to be intrinsic with everyday Christians, especially in America. If that is the case, we as a nation have fallen in dark place with no hope of escape.

      Overall, my assessment about what is happening with members of my family is spot on. They are full of self righteousness and evil deeds. And all this time I beat myself for being a failure in the eyes of God. If I can be honest and make that confession, there is hope for me. But for them, it appears they are truly lost.

  2. jim nations says:

    frances swaggart is a precious woman of god who has the weight of a huge ministry on her shoulders. the amount of work she does for an almost 80 year old woman is amazing. one does not reach her status without being a strong leader and demanding loyalty from her employees. the woman i might add has been put through hell by her husband with all the scandals and she is the one who has kept the ministry together and prospering and provide employment to hundreds of people. god bless frances and jsm. perhaps you should hightail it back to canada and try to find god and then apologize to sister frances.
    jim nations.

    • Galatians 4:16 (Have I therefore become your enemy by telling you the truth?)

      What exactly do I need to apologize for? Should I apologize for telling the truth? Should I apologize for knowing about the nasty hip hop covers and night club posters they were printing in their MINISTRY printshop? Should I apologize for being outraged at the lack of integrity, lies, coverup,and rampant UNCHECKED sexual sin? Should I apologize for being concerned over the wanton disregard for proper exegesis? What exactly is it that you would like me to apologize for?

      First of all I highly doubt this comment came from Jim Nations. I traced the IP address to West Monroe- I also traced the email address to an address in Winnsboro, LA. Instead of Nations couldn’t your last name be White? While I have been disappointed that Jim has failed to take a stand against what I am quite confident he KNOWS is going on there, I sincerely doubt he would stoop to this level.

      Mishel

      • You can’t serve God and mammon. They overcame by the Blood and the Word of Their Testimony. We can’t trust in flesh. We must test the spirits. Pray for the weak.
        I am so tired sister. Please pray for the Body of Christ. There are so many shut ins that love the Lord and they are robbed by the beguiling familiar spirits.
        Praise the Lord that the Word was preached.
        Many men will stand at judgement and claim all of their good works and the Lord will say “depart from me, I never knew you, you workers of iniquity! It is hard for me to accept a gift from someone who has it to give. Imagine getting gifts and let alone begging for them from someone who is in need.
        Thank You for being a sister of the True and Merciful God our PRECIOUS LORD JESUS!
        A spiritual man judgeth all things, yet he is judged by NO MAN!
        Be gentle as a dove and as wise as a serpent.
        Love In Christ Jesus, Linda

      • I am raising my autistic Grandchild with a life threatening illness and I am unable to go to church.I watch SLB on TV all the time.I believe in God and after reading this I am afraid I am
        being mislead.What should I do ?

        • I would suggest not to watch all to often, They preach quite a bit of truth and that’s why they are so dangerous, then they mix in damnable doctrines that can’t be found in the bible so they will point you exclusively to Jimmy’s expositors bible and commentaries to I doctrinaire you with their new theology. Of course it’s really not new at all it is a mixture of lies that have been circulating through the church for years.

          • I would just like to point out that have an expositors bible and its been a tremendous blessing and encouragement. Its simply a study bible with notes to help one understand the scripture better.

          • Yes it certainly can spoon feed you Jimmy’s opinions without stimulating and try study of the bible simply taking his comments and gulping them down. A good study bible very well may have some notes but should also have an abundance of scripture references to stimulate searching and verifying for yourself. The expositors bible has very few scripture references, it will on occasion but mostly just Jimmy’s notes. I have read about 70% of it notes included and of course their are some good things but jimmy has such a mixed bag of theology it is inconstant in many areas as with their teaching.

      • Jim Nations did not write that email. He would be fired for saying that Jimmy has put Frances through Hell. While he certainly would defend Frances, he would defend Jimmy also. He is one of the insiders.

      • Mishel…I was there when some of the things you mentioned happened…I have followed Jimmy since the seventies….and some of what you say is incorrect..especially about the bus ministry…I was there when the two men got the word about the bus ministry…and it didn’t quit then…yes, they sold some buses…but…I won’t go into details because these men are in other jobs…but it is not as you said…this is first hand knowledge.

        Jimmy and frances aren’t perfecxt…they are control freaks…but their name is on the ministry..you don’t like it…leave…do I say that is a good way to run it…in a way yes…in a way no…

        but I do not believe in the gross errors in doctrine….I learned more there in the years i was there than other places..the man is well versed..

        Is he perfect…NO…has he made mistakes..yeah…why is it so bad….because he is seen by so many…..but we see this on a smaller scale in smaller churches…

        I could write a page or two about this…suffice to say…when the two pastors walked out of pastor rentz’s office, I was standing there with their wives and heard word for word what happened…so the bus ministry stuff is wrong.

        • I did not witness the bus ministry incident personally, the source was noted in the above article. If you say that it did not happen that way then I have no reason to disbelieve you. It would simply be your word against the person who wrote the book and I am more concerned with truth than painting the Swaggarts in any particular way. I am willing to admit this fact could be wrong.

          You seem sincere and I do respect your opinion, however there are hundreds of first person testimonies, including mine that contradict your experiences there. Having said that, I have no doubt that you are telling me the truth and that your experiences were positive.

          I do NOT expect the Swaggarts to be perfect, however I DO expect them to live by the standards they espouse. When they preach so vehemently against hip-hop music while profiting through printing lewd covers for local hip hop bands, I have a problem with that. When they profit from printing posters for an area gay club, I also have a problem with that. Likewise I have a problem with them using the ministry printing press which was paid with by people’s donations and using it for a shadow business by another name with funds coming straight back to the ministry. Yeah, call me crazy but I have a problem with that. Also, before you ask, YES they knew about it and I have proof of that fact.

          I do appreciate your testimony though and am glad that your experiences were not like so many others.

      • Thank you for sharing your experiences. I thought Jimmy Swaggart went away after the sex scandals, but then I recently ran across a service on SBN. I felt like I was in a time-warp! I was raised in a pentecostal church very similar to FWC. The environment was so unhealthy! I couldn’t believe they are singing the same songs we were singing 50 years ago and preaching against other churches and pastors that they don’t like! The Swaggarts appear delusional! They’ve convinced themselves that they have ALL truth, that they are the only church preaching the TRUE gospel, etc. They only use the KJV, and of course, the Expositor’s Bible written by Jimmy, as if only he has the true revelation of scripture! They act like their ministry is HUGE! It’s clear that there has been too many years of inbred thought without oversight by wiser, more mature and more loving people. I’m praying that they stay small…and don’t damage the gospel message any more than they already may have!

    • Amen Jim……Amen!

  3. There is no way jim nations of jsm/fwc made those remarks in the earlier comment. Anyone who knows Frances Swaggart even a little bit know that she does not want any mention of her age (yes, almost 80 is correct, she is 75 1/2 to be exact, with DOB 8/9/1937), and absolutely no reminders of the sex scandals that brought JSM down from the absolute zenith of financial income, respectability, and influence, to the state it is now – which is actually quite successful, but not in comparison to its former state. So Jim Nations would never have brought up those two taboo subjects.

    If I were to make a guess, the person who did the posting is trying to bring Jim Nations down. There is a ton of internal jealousy and backstabbing at the JSM/FWC.

    • Well that is true- there is a horrendous amount of infighting there- they would gnaw each other’s heads off with their bare teeth if they thought it would bring them an extra dollar and a bit of recognition.

  4. Mishel,
    Fantastic blog here! Captivated me for several hours these past few weeks! Thank you for your honesty and frankness here, very refreshing in this day where too many lack discernment in the church, and/or lack the courage to confront it.
    I do remember vividly the events of Jimmy Swaggart’s fall 25 years ago, I was in Springfield, MO at the time attending school. Had some good friends who were unfortunately attending JSBC at the time, they quickly transferred out. Very sad the choices Jimmy made, there could have been a better outcome had he followed through with the A/G’s 2 year restoration plan. Unfortunately when someone gets a taste of power, it’s very hard to relinquish it. Reading these recent stories shows how power has corrupted this ministry even further. However, nothing new. Lots of abusive churches out there with their miniature versions of power-play in action stroking the ego of insecure pastors.
    Blessings from Canada, fellow Canadian! :o )
    Arthur

  5. This is a GREAT website! I’ve been looking for one like this for years. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! People need to read these things and have their eyes opened to these wolves. It’s bookmarked as one of my favorites!

  6. I would just like to ask the question? Is this profitable for christians to spend their time in such things as this website discusses. I would have to say not at all but rather its unprofitable. It would be all together different if this site was warning about false teaching and pointing out biblical error but its not. its about one persons experience and from their point of few.

    • You obviously have not read the articles on this website if you believe that the site is not about pointing out Biblical error. Also, the article above is not written from one persons point of view. These things are WELL documented for those who dare to take an objective look.

      • My question is simply, what is the purpose of this site, what is the overall objective? Are you saved Mishel? Do you profess Christ as your Lord and savior and if so, do you think that this site is pleasing to the Lord? The facts of the matter is that there is no perfect human being on planet earth and there will always be fault to find somewhere? If Jesus Christ has forgiven someone of their sins, then those sins are washed away by his blood, never to brought up again.

        • AW, it’s nice to play the compassionate Christian that does not judge and gives everyone the benefit of the doubt because no one is perfect, but the bible clearly states it is our Christian prerogative to test the spirits and judge them by their fruit. So excusing corruption from ministers and ministries is not pleasing to The Lord either. He has given the qualifications of a Bishop in His word. See Paul’s letter to Timothy, and I am all for a fallen minister to receive restoration and renter the ministry but when one never receives any type of restoration but only shows rebellion and now is teaching at best serious error and more likely heresy, the those are the individuals that Paul instructed us to mark because they are devisive and self serving, if you will truly test the spirit of the swaggart ministry you will see that they are very devisive and self serving.

          • Hello John, how is Jimmy Swaggart preaching error? What do you mean? If you have an example, I would like to know so that we may discuss. I have not heard any error come out of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries and I am part of their media church and have greatly benefited from his ministry. It has helped me to grow in the Lord tremendously, namely in being set free from bondages that plagued me and robbed me of my christian experience. It was all through the preaching and teaching of the Cross of Christ and what Jesus accomplished their as spelled out in Romans Chapters 6, 7, & 8.

          • Hello AW,
            I would be more than Glad to discuss with you the error of the JSM cross teaching. First and foremost the biblical message and application of the cross is central to the Christian faith. However JSM diverges subtlety but in fact when exposed not all too subtle. The fact that you received blessing from Gods word does not validate their ministry, a hungry heart God will not turn away and his word won’t return void. JSM preaches a lot of truth and when an individual responds in faith to that truth then The Lord will work in that heart, however the entire body of teaching is not true.

            First I will use Jimmy’s own words, he maintains that all the reasons for his personal struggle was due to him not having understanding of the cross, or he will actually say that he did not have the proper knowledge. Nowhere in the Christian faith are we to seek proper knowledge to abstain victory. If this were the case then every individual that got saved should be placed in a program to indoctrinate them with proper knowledge and then they will never fail The Lord. This of course is absurd, number 1 it negates repentance. If you are a Christian living in gross sin then you don’t need knowledge you need to repent and turn to Christ and come out and not touch the unclean thi gs that you have mingled with. Paul would say how can you be joined to a harlot and Christ?

            Jimmy also says that he did not know “how to control the sinful nature” he says once he got the proper knowledge of the cross he then knew how the sinful nature was to be controlled. This is error to begin with, the cross is not an instrument of control, but in fact an instrument of death. To claim the cross controls sinful impulse as long as your faith ever remains in that object is not a program of sanctification but in fact one of suppression that will only lead to frustration and failure. The sin nature clearly is to be crucified and put to death. Romans 6:6. The problem with jimmy and his view of the cross is that he seems to feel the sinful nature, sin principle, impulse of sinful flesh or Any other terms that may be used is simply placed under “control” and the moment one “takes their faith out of the cross” then all the passions of the flesh run wild. He even uses Galations chapter 5 to support his errant theology. However if you will look at that text and only the text not his words that while sometimes insightful more times than not they simply muddle the scripture, then you will see that when Paul speaks of the works of the flesh, he is clearly speaking of the unredeemed nature. He says so by concluding they that do such SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. It can’t be anymore plain than that. Jimmy has rewritten scripture to make provision that you in fact can formication, and adulterated and all of the others listed because its only that you do not have a proper knowledge of the cross and when you get it like he got it then they will all pass away.

            This ignores the commands of Romans 6. Paul gives the believer instruction to see to it that they take advantage of the redemptive provision of the cross and make the death of the old man a reality in their life.
            These instruction in no way interfere with the doctrine of Grace for they are claims of faith that can only be made by believing that Christ death burial and resurrection are sufficient not only to forgive sin but also purge sin.
            Paul says in Romans 6:11 that we are to reckon ourselves dead, by faith know that our connection with sin is no more and we can walk in new resurrection power through the cross, he also commands the believer Let not sin reign. This implies that we are responsible to resist the power of sin to regain entrance and control in our life. How do we do this? Paul makes it clear in the 13th verse and say neither yeild yourself to unrighteousness but yeild your members unto God. Climatically in verse 14 the apostle gives the result of the believer taking hold of the claims by faith and that is that sin shall not have dominion over you for you have no further connection to it or to the law but you are supplied with the sufficient grace to live a Godly life in Christ Jesus.
            Jimmy and his teaching deny that such responsibility is incumbent upon the believer and in fact state that you simply put faith in the cross and all else is automatic. This is a damning mistake that will leave a believer wondering why they are still committing sin. It is because they have not yielding their vessell unto God, they are waiting for a magical revelation to release that from all temptation. This is a pie in the sky that will never happen, we are promised total victory but in Romans 8 Paul will state we must purposely wage war against the flesh resist its demands because we owe it nothing and depend and trust the power of the spirit to put to death the sinful deeds that our mortal body desires to carry out. This is a very brief summary but should you want to further discuss I will be glad to. I have nothing against JSM and at one time was glad to see that they were doing a good work, but upon further investigation and after many checks in my spirit about jimmy new revelation I have sadly seen that not much has changed thru the years at Jimmy Swaggart ministries.

          • Well spoken truth John from the true Word of God. This type of corruption and leadership style of control & cover-up is rampant in large churches & ministries across America. And so many needy Christians who are influenced by these charismatic charlatans will often do anything to “serve” under these big names & get into their “good graces”. Once they have been taken captive, it is too late & there is too much to lose, so they have to remain loyal unless the they truly know the One whom they should be serving in the first place. Woe be it unto modern day Christianity where too much power, authority & trust is placed in the hands of “anointed men of God” because of their persuasive powers to attract all manner of men w/enticing words of “wisdom” & promises of all kind.

  7. Also I would like to add that I am not advocating sinless perfection, so please don’t accuse me of such, the believer can still most certainly sin but its not a matter of taking faith out of the cross or as I have heard from JSM, ” all sin is a rejection of the cross” this too is absurd, no true Christian would reject the sacrifice of Christ and if ones does then Hebrews tells us that they have passed back to spiritual death by crucifying the son of God afresh and counting the blood of the covenant an unclean thing and doing despite the spirit of grace. This is a far cry from a believer failing The Lord in some way. This happens to every Christian from time to time and is a result of being drawn away by the lust of the flesh and a failure to yeild yourself that the adequate grace may be given. When a christin fails he or she repents and turns to Christ for greater victory. Titus 2:11-14 tells us that the Grace of God will in fact teach us to deny ungodly lust and empower us to live righteous and Godly IN THIS PRESENT WORLD. JSM basically teaches Holiness as a positional truth and not an experimental reality in the life of the believer. This theology can only lead to once saved always saved because it means that the believer need not strive for holy living because we are in Christ and as long as we have faith he simply overlooks our sin because after all we are justified. It is true Christ will always forgive the repentant heart but to claim that you can actually be committing acts of sin and still remain blameless is a total misunderstanding of justification and sanctification..

  8. John, I appreciate your response, however I strongly disagree with what you are saying that JSM teaches. I have followed the ministry now for longer than 12 years and have never once heard them teach once saved always saved. They actually teach that the believer can loose their salvation by no longer believing and I agree completely with that. As for the message of the cross teaching, they are teaching just what the apostle paul teaches in scripture, that Christs death on the cross addressed the sin nature that we all have and that in order to live a life of victory, one must maintain there faith in the finished work of christ and nothing else. Normally, if one examines their life, they will find that there faith is really in their selves, their church attendace, what they do or dont do, religious in other words. Additionally, they teach that it may take some time for a person to grasp hold of this because of all of the erroneous teaching that many chistians have digested for so long, I was an example of this. Its very simple, christ and christ alone defeated sin at calvary and the only thing that you or I can do is to put all of our trust in his finished work. I have done this by the grace God and have experienced deliverance from the bondages of darkness and real freedom in my christian walk.
    Also, I would like to add that the presense of the HOLY SPIRIT can be felt during the church services and as well, campmeeting started last night and I had the grandest time, praising and worshiping the Lord as I could sense the HOLY SPIRIT moving. Does the HOLY SPIRIT annoint error and hypocrisy, no, he does’nt.

    • AW
      I understand that you are not going to examine any of the plain facts that I put in my response that are what Paul has laid forth and in fact what JSM ignores. There is a great delusion with many that follow the swaggart ministry and I will say that whatever supposed anointing you sense may or may not be real I can not say as I am not there, but do you think the Holy Spirit is going to turn away hundreds maybe thousands of sincere hearts because the preacher is in error. Because you felt The Lord in praise and worship means nothing, it means you praised The Lord and The Lord will inhabit the praises of his people. It does not say The Lord will inhabit the praise if the preacher conducting the service is going a biblical direction. Jesus makes it clear that many who did great works in his name will in fact be cast to darkness. Matt 7:22. I personally know an I divi dual that was truly healed of cancer at a Benny Hinn crusade. Does this validate the many erroneous doctrines that Benny Hinn teachers. Absolutely not. I would like to point out that you did not scriptural lay address anything that was presented which was very surface level as far as the JSM error goes. You simply gave me several of their Mantras that people have divided faith placing it in church attendance bible reading ect, ect, however show me in scripture where it teaches divided faith. Yes it’s true many Christians are not defendant upon The Lord like they should, they do not yeild like they should but the reality is all of us are still learning to depend and yeild because none of us have perfectly submitted every area of flesh. So if a believer wants victory I will do as Paul instructed and know that redemptive lay through the death burial and resurrection of Christ victory is available and by faith I will yeild myself to Christ.

      Just because an individual has not reached a place of yielding does not mean their faith is divided. Or they ” took their faith out of the cross” Our faith is in Christ Jesus He is the crucified savior as well as the resurrected savior. So let me ask you when you sin… Have you taken your faith out of the cross? Or have you failed to yeild yourself as a living sacrifice unto God? I’ll let you decide but beware my friend seducers are loose and when the doctrines change many will not recognize. I’m not saying Jimmy is trying to lead anyone astray that only God knows but Gods word is His word.

      I will leave you with this last summer is when I knew they had gone way off track I heard the following with my own ears… One of their prominent ministers stated that a believer can be watching pornography and as long as their faith remains in the cross the sin nature is not controlling them. That is damnable error and very dangerous. I have also heard some of the youth minsters tell kids if your smoking a joint and your faith is in the cross you still have the victory.

      So let me evaluate this, they say that ” faith exclusively in the cross means perpetual victory” but you can also have faith in the cross and engage in sinful activity such as viewing pornagraphy or smoke joints. This is double speak and I would encourage you to spend some time in Gods word and search some things out, don’t be dazzled by personalities. Put the expositors away and just pick up Gods word and allow him to speak. Bless you AW and best wishes.

      • John, with all due respect, what you are saying in respect to JSM ministries is simply not true. I believe that you have misunderstand what has been said. The simple matter is that there is no perfect human being upon the earth, christians included. The scripture does not say that after salvation we will no longer sin and the sad fact is that many christians are living a substandard christian life because they are in bondage to things like cigarrettes, alchohol, pornography, and the list goes on. I was one of those christians, that love the Lord with all of my heart but was failing in an area of my life that frankly I would’nt have wanted anyone to know about, did that mean that I was’nt saved, no I was saved and thats why I knew that the bondage and sin was wrong, I just did’nt know how to walk in Victory. It was through JSM ministries that I learned about law and grace and came to the understanding that my faith for victory really was’nt in the finished work of christ but rather it was in myself, trying to do something that only the Holy Spirit can do. Lastly, and for all that might visit this site, campmeeting is going on right now at Family Worship Center. I tuned in last night and was so blessed and encouraged because the Spirit of God was moving not only in praise and worship but in the preaching. It is really what the world needs at this moment. Burdens were lifted at Calvary!! Praise God.

        • AW
          Can you scripturally define all of the JSM terminology you throw around?
          What is the sin nature? What is it to be under “law”?
          What do you mean that sin remains in the life of the believer?
          Do you mean we are capable of yielding to the lust of the flesh and committing sin? Or do you mean we sin on a regular basis in word, thought and deed? So far in our communication you have not addressed one single area of scripture and instead you give me more JSMisms that they repetitively repeat day after day.

          Is this what they have taught you in 12 years? To parrot their words about law, grace, Christ crucified, works, depending on prayer life, bible study, church attendance. Or can you validate all of their claims in the word.

          Are they leading you to be a Christian in the ” full stature of Christ” as Paul said in Ephesians 4:13, are they building your faith that you ” be no more children tossed to and fro” vs 14. Or are they speaking ” great swelling words of vanity” as Peter would say in 11 Peter 2:18. Are they promising the people liberty while they themselves are slaves to corruption vs 19.

          Could it be that they ” teach things they ought not for filthy lucre sake” Titus 1:11.
          Could it be that Jimmy is claiming an exclusive knowledge of the cross that no one else has and you can’t get anywhere else because he wants you to be obligated to buy his commentaries, study guides, books and study bibles.

          First they say no one is preaching the cross like them on TV. That’s lie number 1 Joseph prince is teaching the same error, why don’t you go research yourself and grab a copy of his latest books. If you like JSM I Garanuntee you will love it. But no if they were concerned with the kingdom and the purity of the Gospel as they claim they would at least admitt he is preaching the same thing, however that would infringe upon their market share. It’s business AW. Wake up

          • John, I really dont know where you are coming from. Where are you getting these things that your saying. Jimmy Swaggart ministries does not preach the same thing as Joseph Prince, matter of fact that have brought out the error in his teaching on their programing. As for addressing things scripturally, what exactly do I need to address scripturally. Tell me where JSM is teaching something unsciptural, you really havent given me anything concrete that is unscriptural, everything you have said thus far in relation to JSM and what they teach has not be factual, I know because I have listened to 100′s of hours of teaching and I know exactly where they stand, you have evidently misunderstood what they are teaching. What I do know, is that my relationship with the Lord is stronger today than ever and I know that Jimmy Swaggart doe’snt lift himself up or anyone in there ministry up but the Lord Jesus Christ. In a nut shell, they teach salvation by grace through JESUS Christ alone, the baptism in the HOLY SPIRIT with the evidence in speaking with other tongues as the spirit of God gives the utterance and that true victory over the sin nature is found by one keeping their faith anchored in the finished work of Christ because there is where Jesus defeated sin. Now, whats wrong with any of that, what part of that is unscriptural?

          • AW,
            First of I’m am glad that you have a close relationship with the Lord, the only reason I would take the time to write you is that I have seen the destruction that is done by JSM. I am not at all misunderstanding their teaching I have seen it in detail, read as I have stated about 70% of the expositors including study notes. I have read also the revelation of the cross study guide and seen much of their programming.

            That being said Joseph Prince absolutely does teach what they do, they may have some differences here and their but basically they are in the same vein, faith in the finished work and get grace and all is well. Joseph Prince may have taken it slightly toward the word of faith direction claiming that if your faith is in the finished work of the cross you will have no sickness, no poverty ect ect. However JSM is coming very close to this line they regularly say “there is a new house in the cross for you” ” there is a new car in the cross for you” ” there is a raise of pay in the cross for you” or since you were so pleased with camp meeting I tuned in to hear Donnie say ” there is a motorcycle in the cross for you” as he was taking up the offering. I will state that Donnie seems to be the only one that has not totally gone off the ledge with this strange theology.

            What you are stating about victory being in the cross ect ect is correct from of theological standpoint. Yes I fully believe in the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Faith and grace is correct theologically, however their application of the cross faith and Grace has gone totally haywire. They are teaching a faith that requires no personal responsibility, they have said on many occasions that if you ” take your faith out of the cross” or ” don’t know the cross as the apostle Paul presented” which of course means their way, then satan overrides your will and brings you into sin. Well first off as I have already stated you can’t take your faith in and out of the cross. I would ask you for one scripture that states you can in fact take your faith in and out of ” the object of the cross”.

            The reason they have come to this conclusion is that they feel the sin nature is “to be controlled by ever keeping the cross your object of faith.”
            This is glaringly unscriptural because Romans is clear the sin nature is to be crucified that the body of sin be destroyed. Now I understand that Jimmy adheres to reformed theology and maintains that the sin nature remains and is a actual entity that always lives inside the believer. They maintain that the believer always grapples with the sin nature. This has been the teaching of reformed theology for centuries, the root of sin always remains and is constantly threatening to rise up and they maintain that somehow God receives glory by leaving this sinful root because its their for ” disciplinary purposes”.

            You didn’t actually think Jimmy came up with all this did you, this is common reformed theology which he freely states when he got the revelation that he did not know how the sin nature was to be controlled he was reading after reformed scholar Kenneth Wiest. I will say that Wiest is certainly very knowledgable and does have good insight into the Greek language, nonetheless he is a reformed theologian so that means once saved always saved and most held the view that we just sin a little everyday.

            Loren Larson clearly adheres to this because I have heard him say that sin is always present in the believers life. Now I don’t not share this view of the sin nature but I don’t wish to argue that. My personal belief is that the “sin nature” is simply the sin principle passed thru Adam as Paul outlines in the second half of the 5 th chapter of Romans.

            The sin principle is the reign and domination of sin in the heart of man. There has been sufficient redemption through the cross for this to be crucified and removed to the degree that our desire are no longer bent to sin. This does not mean that we are incapable of sin it means we are free from sin and free to yeild ourselves to God.
            Adam had no “sin nature” and that didn’t render him incapable of sin.

            However we can differ on that and no problem, that is my view as I am more of the Wesleyan flavor than the reformed.
            But what I do wish to show is that even the reformers of old understood that sin must be resisted and we must continually yeild to God and receive his Grace.
            For it is his grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldliness that we may live righteous in this present world. See Titus chapter 2.

            The ” finished work theory” renders any responsibility of the believer as unnecessisary. As I have already stated Jimmy did not come up with the finished work theory it was first propagated by William Dunham in the days of early Pentecost. It gained quite a following because of its simplicity, place your faith in the finished work and everything will take care of itself. The problem is that if you are in sin in areas of your life this does not encourage you to truly seek deliverance it simply encourages you to keep on going and when God is ready to deal with your sin he will get to it in his time, till then just wait. It creates a passivity and lax look at sin.

            There is no formula of putting your faith in the cross. The Christian life is a life of denying the will of the fleshly pleasure and yielding to God. Jesus said in John 17:17 sanctify them by thy truth thy word is truth. The agents of sanctification are the Word and the Holy Ghost, these are available through the redemptive provision that Christ provided at Calvary. Any sanctification that does not involve the word will be a sanctification that can’t stand, the Living word will cleanse and sanctify as Paul says in Ephesians 5.
            David said a man keeps his way pure by keeping Gods word in their heart that they may not sin against him.

            So the swaggart ministry has taken Gods grace and turned it into license to sin. The comment about viewing pornagraphy with you faith in the cross was not a misunderstanding. It was states. 2 weeks ago they were teaching that repentance is not something the believer needs to worry about because repentance gets in the way of your faith in the cross.

            Just last week their theology took another interesting turn as Jimmy begin to say that the active element of faith is belief. Loren Larson has latched onto this because he truly thinks that Jimmy is an apostle and basically correct in all that he says. Loren preached this in the camp meeting Thursday morn and even made the comment its not about obedience but about belief. His text was Hebrews 11:6. Maybe Loren should have read the rest of the chapter because the whole chapter bears out the active side of faith which is obedience. It gives many examples of the faith that Gods people had and the obedience that defied all human reason.

            The Swaggart’s are preaching a Antinomian Gospel that rejects responsibility and obedience as a key part of Libving for God, its only having a “revelation of the cross”
            You don’t have to believe me because their is a great deal of importance that comes from thinking you are a chosen one for Gods last great move. This is what swaggart brainwashes you with. No such move will come. Revival comes thru sobbing hearts crying for God in brokenness and not charismatic Preachers proclaiming it to be so.

  9. John,
    I dont know any other way to say it but you really do not know what you are talking about. None of what you are accusing the Swaggarts of is true, I am a member of their church and hold them in very high regard. The attitude that you are ascribing to Jimmy Swaggart is simply not true, much of what you have said is really taken out of context. For example, what you mentioned about there being a motorcycle in the cross, all that they are saying is that at Calvary, Jesus made it possible for God to Bless us and meet our needs and that is only made possible through what Christ did at the cross. If you will listen to all that is said, they always emphasize that its God who decides how he blesses one, whether that is monetarily, materially, spiritually, or physically. Also, in reference to addressing things that you have said scripturally, you have not really given me anything that was accurate in respect to what they teach, you have sort of added a twist to it and I know that its not true because as I have mentioned I am part of the church and ardently study the word of God with them and for myself personally, so I know what they teach. Lastly, and I know that you dont know me so really you just have to take it for what I am telling you know. Since sitting under the ministry of Jimmy Swaggart, I have found victory over the bondages of sin that plagued my life, I have a regular pray life, and I love the word of God more today than ever before. Is’nt that a good thing? So, for me this site is really not proclaiming the truth about JImmy Swaggart ministries, I dont think the Lord would be very pleased by this site at all. Also, I got here through Apostacy Watch which also has a section in regards to Brother Swaggarts failures in the past. Why would a site do that, especially something that was so long ago and what if Jimmy Swaggart has asked the Lord to forgive him for that and its underneath the blood now. Dont you think the Lord is awfully displeased with someone posting that hurtful information.

    • AW
      I did not assume that we would agree but hopefully I have at least given you things to think about and look into on your own. One simple thing that you could address is giving me one scripture that states believers can in fact place their faith in and out of the cross, in the cross victory, out of the cross “sin nature” runs wild. This isn’t found in Gods word. As to me taking things out of context, I was not because telling people that ” a new house, car, raise in pay, motorcycle” is in the cross is ridiculous, I don’t care what the context is, yes through redemption we have spiritual blessings and God will meet out material needs, nowhere are we promised new houses, cars or better Jobs. Quite contrary Jews in the early church lost their houses, Jobs and postions in the community for the cause of Christ. Thankfully that has not happened in America, but we don’t have an American Gospel or and African gospel or a Chinese Gospel, their is one Gospel and I assure knowing some American preachers that have traveled to china and preached in their underground churches those believers are not finding raises in pay, new houses or cars in the cross, what they have found is redemption for their soul and eternal life and some find themselves in prison and even killed. The Swaggart’s Gospel is a very powerless Gospel that can’t and won’t stand against persecution. Jimmy also states that Christian suffering has been totally misunderstood by the church and their is no suffering( don’t believe me, think I’m taking out of context then look at his Philippians commentary 3:10 and you will see) and all the suffering has been done by Christ and for us its just blessing, blessing, blessing. Well that sounds nice but if your going to truly live for Christ even in America their will be times of suffering, Paul said all that live Godly in Christ suffer persecution. Peter said he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. No we are not saved and sanctified by any physical suffering but at times we suffer people speaking ill of us and speaking lies about us, this no doubt is suffering to the flesh, because the flesh wants to get even. However Peter said its better to suffer for well doing than for evil doing.

      You don’t have to research reformed theology, finished work doctrine or any of the other things I have brought to your attention that is up to you, but when you have those small checks in your spirit about the swaggart organization and their money making operations you need to listen to them.

      JSM truly grieves me, they are so exalted in Pride thinking they are the only ones with the ” right message” that the last great move of God will take place through their TV cameras and that the church has been in darkness concerning sanctification until Jimmy. It is sad, because Pride and arrogance is suffocating that ministry once again. As I have said before not much has changed since the 80s.

      Now as far as bringing up his past sin, I have never done that nor would I, the only relevant issue I would take with his past is that it should cause believers to be very decirning with his present. A man who could call his brother a cancer in front of the whole nation just to find out months later that he was living in gross sin, is a man whose arrogance and power had blinded and mamed him much like Sampson of old. Jimmy is no doubt called of God and a very gifted man, but in my opinion it seems his self serving tactics that sunk his the first time have not really left him but have in fact resurphaced now that he has a large audience once again. It just seems jimmy has never really though anybody had it quite like him

      • John, lets be fair. You are saying that they are proclaiming that they are the only ones with the right message and thats simply not true. There statement is that they are not aware of anyone with a platform such as JSM, a worldwide ministry, is preaching the cross, for not only salvation, but as the means for sanctification. I happen to agree with that statement, because the other major christian network, TBN, is just simply full of error and to be honest, how any christian can watch what is promoted on that network without feeling a check in there spirit, I can not understand. It truly is all about money, and nothing is really preached that will truly help people. That network grieves me. Nevertheless, JSM never comes off as trying to say that they are the only ones with the truth, that attitude is not there. I would ask you to take a month and watch the telecast with an open and sincere heart and if after that month you still feel the same way, then ok, but give them a chance. No matter what anyone says, as for me and what I have struggled with as a christian and not getting victory over particular sins in my life, that is a life of pure misery and JSM ministies has helped me see and know that victory can only come through calvary. Now, as for scripture, Romans 5:1 states that we are justified by faith in JESUS. I maintain, that we are to keep our faith anchored in the finished work of christ at all times for the rest of our christian experience and that it is easy, if one does’nt have a proper understanding of calvary, meaning that what JESUS did was a legal work, which gives the HOLY SPIRIT the lattitude to help us, then its easy for that faith to all of the sudden begin to take a subtle shift into our works, i.e., bible reading, church attendance, and so on. I know that this is true because it happened to me and I really did’nt realize that I was doing it, but the results are failure. Also, Galations 2:20, & 21, states that we are crucified with Christ and if righteousness comes by the law (our works), then Christ died in vain. The central theme of the whole bible is JESUS Christ and him crucified, and that is the message of the cross. The results of that preaching has led me into a life of victory over bondages that hurt my christian walk tremendously and if they were’nt stopped would have wrecked my entire family and the whole time that i was going through those things, i was fighting and loosing and really depending upon my own will power to get the victory but it always ended into defeat, until I looked at Calvary and the Lord helped me to see that Jesus defeated sin, Romans 6:14, Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law, but grace, then I found the victory and begin to experience the abundant life that Christ died so that we may have. Anyway, as I stated before, sites like this I believe our very displeasing to the Lord, there is really a bias in much of what I have read and things are taken out of context, so I dont really get it. It also, does’nt come off as very christian either, why would I site go through other peoples account of particular situations, unless a person was actually there, none of that can really be substantiated.

  10. John, for some reason my last reply did not post. Nevertheless, I am not sure where exactly alot of what you are saying is coming from. As one that not only follows the ministry of JSM and am also a member of the church, I can say for 100% certain that much of what you have brought out is taken out of context. Also, the key chapters that regard the christian keeping there faith anchored in the cross our Romans 6, 7, & 8. Lastly, the only person that JSM is lifting up is “Jesus Christ and him Crucified” and I would ask the question what is wrong with that. The gospel is what the world news, I need, you need, and everyone else. Jesus paid the price of our sins, all things that come to the believer come through that finished work. As a believer we have needs, spiritual, physical, domestical, material, and so on. The cross of Calvary has made it possible for God to meet all those needs. One more thing, this site is not very Christian at all. Why in the world would a site post the types of things that really unless somewhere were there, there is no way to substantiate. Now, if it actually biblically pointed out error, line by line verse by verse, that would be different. The fact is that it does’nt, everything has been taking out of context and thats not right. As I listen to the teaching, preaching, and worship from JSM, I can sense the annointing, the presence of God, and that is a wonderful thing. Also, the result for me has been bringing my family back together, deliverance from bondages of darkness, physical healing, and I can go on. Give them a chance, listen to them for a month with an open heart and allow the Lord to speak to you. God Bless.

    • AJ
      I would actually be glad to go line by line following Jimmy Swaggart’s own Romans 6 study guide but I don’t think you would absorb or critically review the facts I presented you. At this time you seem bent on defending the Swaggart’s in every area and Romans 6,7,8 don’t outline how “one exclusively places their faith in the cross” and it does not outline how a believer takes his faith in and out of the cross. Romans 6 actually outlines that we were sanctified on the cross Romans 6:6 and the 17th chapter of John as well as the newness of life that we receive by walking in resurrection power. This is all redemptive provision and them Paul outlines in Romans 6:11-22 outline how this provision is to be made an experiential reality in the life of the believer. Non of the instructions are put your faith in the cross. They are 1. Reckon 2. Let not 3. Yeild. However I have already put this several times and if you can’t follow that then greater detail would probably be pointless.

      I have given the Swaggart’s far more than a month my friend and without revealing to much information I can Garanuntee you that my exposure to that ministry has been greater than yours. And in fact the print shop scandal is a fact, I know several employees there that have verified that it was and in fact it was taken to the Top and the employee trying to stop corruption was rewarded by being fired and evicted from his apartment which the Swaggart’s own.

      You certainly can continue to swallow what they say, I would beg you to at least google the following.. Stanley Frodsham prophecy 1965… It is a shaking and powerful prophecy that lines up completely with Gods word and foretells suducers that will deceive and lead astray.
      Please take the time, it specifically foretells how some gifted called and anointed will start right and then be lead astray by seducing spirits and sadly foretells how many of Gods people will say that they don’t find the new doctrines in Gods word but they must be true because the things previously stated by that minister were true… It is a must read for every believer in this day. Disagree all you want with me AW and that’s fine, I, not trying to argue doctrine or theology but I am warning you. At least give this a read. God bless my brother.

      • John, to be honest, I dont personally have the time to go into alot of detail in respect to the teaching of Romans 6, 7, & 8. Its not that I dont want to, its that I simple dont have the time. I am a father to 7 kids, so my life is quite busy. As for the Stanely Frodsham prophecy, I have already read that and interestingly enough, it was also read on Brother Swaggarts program. Lastly, all I know is the radical change that has occurred in my own heart and life and its due to sitting under the teaching at JSM ministries, reading through the study guides, and commentaries. Its been a tremendous blessing to me and what is wrong with that? I can tell you from my own personal experience, I am not looking to JSM or any one else for my spirtual life, I am looking to Jesus and if a ministry is pointing people to JESUS and JESUS alone, that is a great and wonderful thing.

        • Yes I am aware that Jimmy has read that and from my point of view it is quite ironic. Jimmy also has it in his 1 John commentary however neither place have I ever seen jimmy read it in its entirety, nothing wrong with that but the entire thing is worth reading.
          Of course there is nothing wrong with looking to Jesus and whatever has been done in your heart is wonderful, but I would not make the mistake of drinking down all that’s coming from that ministry no matter what you have “experienced” in the past. The question is does it line up currently? I’m afraid it does not in so many ways, the preach a lot of truth and that’s what gets people.

          I’m glad you are pursuing Christ and if you continue and are truly open to the truth concerning JSM you very well may change your mind. God bless you

    • Fidelidad says:

      Dear AW,

      I am very happy, joyful, and pleased that you are finding victory and blessing through the God’s Grace, the Word of God, and JSM. Originally I wanted to share with you my reasons why I think you should be cautious about getting too involved with the JSM. However, after thought and prayer, I agree with you that if a person is only receiving blessing and victory, generally they are not going to believe negative stories, or, if they believe them, they will not give them much weight in their evaluation.

      So, instead, I just want to say that websites like this one do offer a much needed balm to people who have been, or feel, exploited and harmed by a ministry such as JSM. I am not going to go so far as to say that God is pleased with this website, because I do not believe God called me to publish such a site and I cannot speak for the owner. However, God does not hide the failures of even his chosen vessels, which you know from the Bible. God did not hide the failures of Abraham, Moses, David, Simon Peter, John and James, Matthew, Mark, and the Apostle Paul, among others, and some of those failures were very great and scandalous. But they are in writing for all eternity, and surely God is pleased with His Word, which does not lie.

      I can say with certainty that JSM has exploited and hurt many people, and when questioned about their actions, they will try to make the injured party believe they are crazy – somewhat like a rapist blaming his victim for the assault. I know this from my own personal experience and from observing, sometimes at a close distance, sometimes further away, mahy other examples and situations. And there were websites such as these that helped me deal with my own pain and confusion. One website in particular, which no longer exists, had a pastor who contributed many articles about how JSM/s teaching was not quite Biblical. This pastor knew Jimmy and Frances personally and had worked together with them for many years and going way back.

      So unless you particularly want me to tell you those areas where I think you should be cautious, I am just going to forget that. I just want you to know that this website is helping someone somewhere who has been victimized by the JSM. And I do think God is not displeased with that. He may even have ordained it to be, just as He can save and heal and give victory through a ministry like JSM.

      Your Sister in Christ
      Fidelidad (means Faithfulness in Spanish)

      P.S. I responded to this post, because the one where you answered me starts out “Fidelidad says,” and it should say “AW says,” and I wanted to make sure you got the notification of my answer.

  11. Fidelidad says:

    Dear AW, I have been following your remarks on this forum, and the back and forth with John. Could you clarify a couple of things for me? 1) Do you live in Baton Rouge and attend the physical FWC? Or are you a “Media Church” member? 2) Are you (comparatively) recently involved with JSM or are you aware of the history of this ministry, which goes back to the 60′s, 70′s and which really hit “the big time” in the 80′s? I am concerned that you are so eager to defend the JSM and never seem to see any negativity about them. If you are a Media Church member and have become involved with them in the last 10 years, or even 5, that would explain a lot to me, and I would like to discuss certain things with you.

    • Fidelidad says:

      Hi Fidelidad, yes I am a media church member and I have been for quite some time. Also, I am aware of the history of the ministry. I am open to discuss anything that you would like.

    • Fidelidad says:

      Fidelidad, I am a media church member but have followed JSM ministries since I was a kid. That is actually how I found Christ, through JSM ministries. As for me being so eager to defend JSM, I maybe shoud not even get involved in this type of stuff, because everything I have thus far read, most defintely puts a twist on what is being taught at JSM, and I know this because I ardently follow, pray for, and support the ministry. So when things are said, they are generally said out of context and the attitude that many protray Jimmy Swaggart as having is not there at all. Secondly, there are negative things about every human being on the planet, excluding none. So as for what has happened there, I know that no human on earth would want their sins plastered over television for the entire world to see and to be made fun of, mocked, and joked about, that is one more awful thing to happen to anyone and I have enough discernment about me to know that Jimmy Swaggart is 100% saved and forgiven and points people to the right place to get the help they need, which is the cross of Calvary. Also, I just finished up having Easter Camp meeting with them, and I dont have the words to even begin to explain, the presence of the Lord that I felt, the word of God that was preached under the annointing of the Holy Spirit, and it just was an all around wonderful experience. So, praise God, I am saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost and I know from experience that what JSM is preaching is the truth and nobody can tell me differently. Just as when Jesus healed the blindman, can you imagine people saying oh you not healed. Its riduculous to say the least.

      • I’m a little confused, is Fidilidad having a conversation with himself or is the system messing up somehow and putting his name under AW’s responses?

        • Fidelidad says:

          Fidelidad is not having a conversation with herself (although I have done that, just not on this forum, hahahaha). AW response to me somehow were sent with the beginning “Fidelidad says . . . .” That’s why I responded to an earlier post from AW rather than his last, because I thought if I responded to this last one, the system would send the notification to me instead of to AW. Thanks for noticing.

  12. Ok, that’s what I thought.
    Unfortunately AW is not open to hearing the truth as it concerns JSM. He claims I’m out of context yet he can explain how, simply says JSM preaches the truth and he has great experiences at their camp meetings. Very sad because JSM is not preaching the truth and I’m not twisting it, it’s quite plain for those who care to know.

    • John, you did an excellent job trying to refute his belief in JSM. I say “belief in JSM” because it is not a belief in the God of Abraham Isaac Jacob or in the biblical Jesus. It is faith in an organization and a corrupt one at that. Having worked for them I can attest to their corruption and they have been steadily straying further and further from the truth while their supporters blindly follow.

      I liken it to a pilot whose equipment is just slightly off. If the pilot is just making a trip of 100 miles it will not be noticed much. However if the pilot is going thousands of miles his only slightly faulty equipment will cause him to be hundreds of miles off. JSM started off close to the truth but as time progresses they are further and further away.

      However, even if we discard their faulty doctrine ( while no bible believing Christian could) the fact that this is a PROVABLY corrupt organization should be all the “proof” one should need. Even though I had SOLID IRREFUATABLE evidence of the smut they were printing in their print shop people continued to call me a liar. In my experience, those within JSM do not want to listen or hear the truth. They believe what they want to believe and that is that. They think because they felt a tingle or were blessed in some way that this is evidence of God’s approval of this ministry and nothing could be further than the truth. Deceived people do not know they are deceived.

      • Mishel, its simply amazing to me how that you could come to the conclusion that you have about me, someone that you do not even now. For the record, I was saved at 13 years old and also Baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. That came about because of the preaching of Jimmy Swaggart. Now I admit, as a young man, my faith did stray from where it should be, Jesus Christ and him alone, to the man Jimmy Swaggart. That was definetly wrong and I found out that my faith should never be in any man on this earth, denomination, or anything else, but only in Jesus Christ and him alone and for that matter and more specifically, Jesus Christ and him crucified. It was he that died for me and he alone. Lastly, I would like to point out that the statement that you made in reference to me is 100% wrong, that should something to you hopefully. I am certain that this site is not at all pleasing to the Lord and it really sounds like that you have not forgiven those that hurt you because you seem to be holding on to this, when the right thing to do, is to forgive and move on. Hopefully you will post this. AW

    • John, I left Mishel a comment so hopefully it will post. Nevertheless, she came to a conclusion about me without even knowing me personally, its really a shame. For the record, my faith is not in JSM or any man made organization, but in Jesus Christ and him crucified. That is it, just that simple. Also, when I made the comment about you taking things out of context, its just the fact that I dont just attend Sunday morning service once in awhile, but I also do the night service, listen to Wed. night service and follow along with the teaching series. So, I know exactly what they believe and Jimmy Swaggart does’nt exhibit the kind of attitudes that are attributed to him, he has never one time said he was the “only one” or even promoted himself in that respect in the least kind of way, but on the contrary has been very humble and continues to teach that believers should look to the cross, the finished work of Christ as the answer to the sin nature. It is just as Paul said in Galations 2:20, that we are crucified with Christ and its easy for a believer to get their eyes onto their own works and not keeping their eyes upon Jesus. I did it myself, but when I began to as the apostle said in Romans Chapter 6 to reckon myself dead to sin “the sin nature” each and every day that my faith begin to get back to its proper foundation. AW

      • Ok AW
        As a fellow believer I truly wish you the best and I certainly could not determine your relationship with The Lord. But it’s obvious you hear the true things presented and have yet to identify the false. This week I heard with my own ears… I am not taking it out of context… If you listen to the morning show you heard it too… Jim Woolsey said if you are failing and stumbling in sin as long as your faith is in the cross then you are walking in the spirit. Jimmy Swaggart said yes yes I agree… Damnable, when you fail and you are sinning you are NOT WALKING IN THE SPIRIT, if you are repentant will Christ forgive you? Yes of course but to claim we can be in sin and in the spirit at the same time is a gross perversion of the scripture.

        • John, I am sorry my friend, but you are really not hearing what is being said. I did not listen to the particular message that you are referencing but I can tell you 100% what they are referring to and that is that as a christian, we are 100% Justified by faith in Christ and that justication does not change when we sin. Ofcourse repentance is a must for any christian and if one is truly saved and they sin, the Holy Spirit is going to convict their heart and lead them to repentance. I will use myself as an example, when I sin, I take it to the Lord and according to 1 John 1:9, if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Thank the Lord. I will continue on with myself as an example in that I struggled with a particular sin for years, not getting victory over the sin, confessing each time and asking the Lord to forgive me and he was always faithful to do so. During those times of where I failed God, I did’nt loose my justification, that position can not change, unless of course I denied the Lord and just walked away. So, during those times and especially when I began to listen to the teaching on the message of the Cross, there was a long period of discovery and seeing that my faith for victory and overcoming sin was really in my self and I have no power to overcome, but gradually the Holy Spirit helped me to anchor my trust and my confidence in the finished work Christ and understand that everything I recieve from God comes via “through calvary” and little by little I began to walk after the Spirit and there was definetley failures along the way, but Praise be to God, that sin does’nt have dominion over me anymore and its the most wonderful thing ever. And it all came through me getting a proper knowledge of what Jesus did, that it was a legal work and that there is nothing that I can add to that work. Its just simply Jesus and him Crucified. Now that is the same Gospel that the apostle Paul preached and its the same Gospel that Jimmy Swaggart Preaches.

  13. I started listening to SBN radio a few months ago and was impressed with their focus on the cross. However, last week one of their pastors started referring to the “divine nature” in us and the red flags went up instantly. They did not linger on this so it’s possible he just misspoke, but any Christian and especially a pastor/theologian should know the heretical implications of this statement. The Three Persons of the Trinity are divine and we are human and only Christ has both a divine nature and a human nature – fully God, fully human. To imply that there is a divine nature in us is to deny we are created beings and all the false teachings that go along with that ideology.

    • AW…..THANKS for standing up for the Swaggarts……
      did you notice at the END of that long dissertation he stated that HE checked with HIS spirit. But this sad person needs a dose of the HOLY SPIRIT. IF this “john” spent as much time reading the Bible instead to trying to TELL OTHER that JSM is oh so bad….this person night have a chance of being saved. ALL of this guys babble is sickening. I have not heard one word that Jesus would approve of yet??? It is so sad when people are so covetous of others. No matter who the OTHERS are. The sad ones rail and rail against the HORROR these people are doing!! ALL I KNOW is THIS…when I watch I get chills and tears….I FEEL the Holy Spirit in the broadcasts. GLORY TO GOD for that…………I have missed hearing the WORD OF GOD and feeling HIM TOO………that’s awesome!!
      One person in this “potty blog” was talking about Frances…..I used to build CUSTOM homes in the PGA Florida!! Nice homes…..anyway I ran 55 carpenters and 20 in my form/foundations crew and some 36 labors and then my subs…..I bet if you spoke to any of my men they would tell you I WAS TUFF but fair. This guy that is babbling on has never RUN a business. Nor has the woman earlier in the blog….but I guess because the Swaggarts are famous they can’t SUE people like this that run their mouths and YET have backed up nothing. The one guy worked for them for THREE YEARS wow it was SOOOOOO bad for him…..huh!! If the poor guy was that fearful he should have LEFT but I guess the MONEY was still green…or was it because Francis was a strong WOMAN that made him fearful…anyway these people I hope God will forgive them…..but like the Bible says EVEN SATAN CAN QUOTE SCRIPTURE!!!!
      But it’s nice to see REAL people who love the word of God and FIND IT at SBN…can I get and amen?? These ??saints?? in the blog that bad mouth and condemn in the Name of religion would have thrown that first stone that day Jesus said….WHO will cast the FIRST STONE at the woman caught in the act…..because ALL of them here are SO….. FREE of SIN???
      Get on your knees JOHN…………who asked you to be judge and jury BECAUSE YOU THINK or BECAUSE YOU FEEL……..you “john” have your nerve…..but the LORD will fix that for yea and take the pain away from your worldly desires and this harm you wish to do to others….you poor sad thing!
      But thank GOD for SBN. ShareAthon starts tomorrow I have my offering ready…

  14. One more thing, I am really grieved by this site. Asking myself the question of why I even visited. I hope Mishel heres what I am about to say and that is, this website is not of the Lord and its breeding something very sinster and probably and most likely has hindered and hurt a few not so mature Christians. What is the purpose? Even many of the remarks and comments made our with such arrogance and pride. John, I would like for you to answer this question? Do you think the Lord would be pleased with this site and whats going on. No matter what, whatever transpired between Mishel and JSM, is between them and I was’nt there and its really such a shame to accuse someone and they not have a chance to defend themselves or all of the people that visit this site get a one-sided story, well there is another side to the story, should’nt that be heard. Again, I will visit back to check on your response John, and after that we will close it out because this is not profitable. Oh by the way, and I know there is no way for you or anyone to verify what I am about to say, but I have recieved so many blessings from JSM and there materia, I have recieved physical healing in my body, and when the recession hit and I lost my job, I was only laid off for a day before I was hired at another company, same salary and benefits and recieved a months severance pay, now thats the Lord and the interesting thing about it is that I tithe to JSM, so just prior to that, I had a little bit of money saved up and the Lord basically spoke to my heart to give to the ministry and I did and the Lord has kept me employed ever since making even more money than I did back then. “the proof is in the pudding”

  15. Aw
    Being justified does not mean that when we sin we are “still in the spirit” that is error. When we sin we have yielded to the flesh. To make people think that when they are sinning they are still in the spirit as long ” as their faith ever stays anchored in the cross” is a damning teaching that will cause people to wink at sin, stay in sin and not seek to live a righteous life

    • John, perhaps you just misunderstood the statement, I have been following and sitting under that ministry for over 12 years and have never thought one time that I can sin and be in the spirit.

    • ARE YOU NUTS???? You know john…..you just might need a long vacation…..it sounds like the strain of being SO HOLY is getting to you …..your halos to tight maybe ??!!!

      WOW…… you people on this potty blog WILL ANSWER TO GOD one day. OR in your crazed desire to WRITE these worthless nasty accusing defamatory words…. forget that your mind and your tongue WILL be judged by GOD?? I don’t know if you are a sheep or a goat…..but IF I WERE YOU…..I would take a nice LONG break and stop this…..stop being jealous of the WORD of GOD…..you can be CHANGED by it too……Jesus loves all sinners!! Seek HIM john….because you really are skating on some very thin ice here with your words…..
      You might want to ATTACK some true APOSTATE preachers on TV. The LIST is long and getting longer…..now see…..you can say these things and SOME things spoken will be RIGHT AS RAIN!!!! And you will need no proof either there…..the TRUTH is in the WORD and when that TRUTH is right you see the FRUITS of the word…..come and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is LORD….repent and Jesus will wash you in HIS blood and make you clean and then the Holy Spirit will come into your heart and soul and GUIDE you in a NEW walk with Jesus john… WOW…………… I just feel so SORRY for you and maybe YOUR SPIRIT is lost…..you keep talking about YOUR SPIRIT……….you need to EXAMINE yourself john….I do not THINK you truly have the GIFT of discernment…..have you even been Baptized with the HOLY SPIRIT with HIS dunamas POWER?? Something isn’t right with you….I’ll ask the LORD to give me a word of knowledge about you….because I really feel you need some serious help. The more I site here and write the more the Holy Spirit makes me feel sad for you!! maranatha maranatha

      YOU KNOW in court you need P R O O F ….BUT in blogs all you have to do is SMEAR and lie. HERE john and that girl mishel that posted here NEED a big bunch of TOILET PAPER to wipe themselves off.
      Because it it getting DEEP in here. Like AW said why am I HERE………….LORD HELP ME I have fallen into a PIT and please FORGIVE ME for trying to stop stupidity from running rampant here!!
      Come Holy Spirit I need thee…. Come Holy Spirit I pray…..Come Holy Spirit in thy strength and thy power…oh LORD……Come Holy Spirit I pray!!! Love it when he sings that on the crusades!

      I feel dirty now…..I need my Holy Spirits touch… SOOOOOOOO john I will leave you to your slander and sad illl will and I’ll go to SBN and breath some clean HOLY SPIRIT air and hear some good music to boot!! GLORY TO GOD…………thank you MY LORD JESUS for what YOU did for a wretch like me on the CROSS…………………maranatha maranatha !!!

  16. AW
    You have not received healing through the material of JSM, and your financial well being is not connected to JSM the very fact that you think such is quite sad. Evidently you view Jimmy as your mediator, you get healing thru JSM, you get a good job because you give to JSM. I feel that The Lord is not happy with the bondage that JSM is placing people in, and as far as this site I can not speak for every article because I have not read every article but the bible tells us not to have fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness but instead to reprove them. JSM speaks like in hypocrisy about others, so I am glad that their true colors are being exposed to those that will hear.
    Can I say that Mishel has %100 pure motive and no bitterness from her JSM experience? No I really can’t because only God knows the heart of a person, I can only say that from what I have picked up she seems to be quite disturbed from the happenings of JSM and she should be. I have not picked up a bitter or vengeful spirit about her but when truth is told about personalities that people have made idols out of it hurts. I can truly say at one time I was an avid supporter of JSM, I thought they were truly presenting the “old paths” the true Gospel. However after many checks in my spirit and a intense examination of their teaching and of scripture I have to say with 100% certainty that they are not.
    I don’t have a bone to pick with them personally but the damage they are doing and the damage they will do is enormous and grieving. They are truly wolves in sheeps clothing. I pray they repent because God will judge what is taking place if they do not turn. Judgment came in the 80s as that ministry lifted itself up as the beacon of truth and downed all others as not quite living up to the standard of Jimmy. This pious hypocrisy was judged and without repentance that is the only end to what is currently happening today. The new Jimmy is a whole lot like the old Jimmy.

    AW we will have to agree to disagree, however you are being fleeced but “great swelling words of vanity” John said those that do righteous are righteous. They may speak some truth but sadly the truth is not in them and error can’t stand.

    • John, wake up man!! I am done here. I have been tremendously blessed throught the “preaching and teaching” at Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, never once have I held him or anyone else up as my means of blessing and healing, but the facts our, I was healed watching the telecast, I’ve learned to tithe watching the telecast, my eyes are on Jesus Christ and him alone. Not this site, you or anyone else can change that. Jesus is my Lord and saviour. You just dont want to believe, thats all. You can respond if you like, but I want be back. This site is not of the Lord, its actually evil.

  17. AW and John, you guys are my brothers, but the back and forth is not edifying. AW, you have a sweet spirit. May God continue blessing you. Always remembering that Christ is the final authority, not a ministry, a feeling or a man. John, I see your passion in revealing truth but what is the true motive behind it? Just to prove a point to win an argument? After reading all the information posted by Mishel, I am on the fence with JSM now. I must say, I was truly enjoying the Frances and Friends TV program before coming across to this site. Quite a let down for me. Will change the channel. Let’s pray for their ministry.

    • DAVID…. here (this site) is what needs to be turned Off…..do you feel the Holy Spirit here??? NO and NO and ten thousand times no. But SBN….I FEEL IT……..don’t let some people who know zero and have even less NO PROOF and can’t even back up ONE stinking statement do your thinking for you !!??
      MOVE from SBN if your SOUL is not being fed…..because one of the FEW places the TRUE WORD of GOD is preached and taught and sung is SBN !! Don’t allow this petty and sad back biting rhetoric move your soul ONE INCH. Blogs like this are less than a dime a dozen….it’s so easy to SAY what ever and call it THEIR TRUTH…………it doesn’t matter anymore IF THE TRUTH is even close to the being true…..but here…..they all need some soap!!
      You discern David….is there fruit and is the WORD of GOD spoken…..if YES then enjoy SBN and just chalk THIS PLACE up to a bad dinner that had to find a toilet quickly and get flushed….down goes the yuck and the stink !!
      Blessings and let your light shine the LORD needs HIS saints for the up coming harvest…..HE’S coming back soon!! Glory glory Praise God

      • Rene,
        Thank you for your response and concern for my Soul. While I understand that you are angry with me because you obviously are very emotionally invested into the Swaggart ministry. While I have pointed out error in the swaggart teaching I have not slandered their person nor wil I. God is the Judge and we will all do well to leave that duty to him, he alone determines if a heart is truly born again and walking in the light of Christ.

        Have you spent any significant time at the swaggart ministry in Baton Rouge? If you have not I assure you Television does not tell the whole story. I can honestly say that I pray on a regular basis for those at the ministry, not everyday but on a regular basis. I’m not mad at them, I don’t hate them and I certainly can’t stand in the way on anyone watching them. However that does not mean I have to be in agreement with them.

        They teach things that are right. There teaching that you are saved only by grace is very much correct. Their teaching that only faith can bring about a sanctified life is very much correct. But they are supremely imbalanced to the point that they border heretical in some of their teaching.

        You ask if I have been filled with the spirit, well yes I have and I certainly believe that speaking in tongues is a evidence of a spirit filled life but the proof is in the fruit of your life, are you living a holy life free from sin and walking in the Love and gentleness of Christ. I certainly strive to.

        The fruit from JSM is quite rotten and while I’ll be the first to agree that some people are blesse by the ministry that still does not validate the error. For example a person who has been bound by legalism may turn on the network and hear the message of Grace, this will be like a fresh splash of water on a parched and dry tongue.

        However when they receive this truth and then attribute it to the Swaggart ministry and them digest all of their teaching they have swung from one pendulum of error to the other.
        Like Inhave said over and over on this site, error rides on the back of truth, really good error rides on the back of much truth. I John says that we have a Holy anointing and he also said the Holy Spirit leads to all truth, you don’t need to argue with me and I don’t need to argue with you, pray and read Gods word without the imposition of man thought engrafted into the word( Jimmy Swaggart’s expositors bible) and let The Lord guide your descion to support or not support the Swaggart’s.

  18. Grace Evans says:

    i agree with everything that has been said swaggart teaches some truth and lots of false i do not read his bible but only the regular king james bible.

  19. Edwin Rodriguez says:

    I’M NOT A JUDGE, GOD KNOW EVERTHING, THE BIBLE SAIDS THAT ONE DAY, MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, LORD LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN YOUR NAME, CAST OUT DEMONS IN YOUR NAME, AND DONE MANY WONDERS IN YOUR NAME? AND THEN I WILL DECLARE TO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPAT FROM YOU WHO WORK INIQUITY ( MATTHEWS: 7: 22,23 ) I KNOW THAT THEY ARE MANY CROOKS LIVING OF GODS PEOPLES, AND THEY WILL ACOUNT TO GOD FOR, AND THEY ARE MANY CHURCH GOING PEOLPE THAT YOU CLOUD PROVE THE THURTH TO THEM AND ARE STIIL BLIND TO IT.. SO BROTHER MISHEL KEEP THE FAITH, BECAUSE THEY ARE WHOM SHOWEN PROVE OF THE JMS… CHURCH OPEN YOURS EYES TO THE FALSE PREACERS, THE BIBLE SAIDS BY THERE FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW.. SO YOU READ THE WROD OF GOD, THE WORD OF GOD WILL YOU WHOS WHO.. SO BE CAREFULL OF CROOKY PREACHES.. GBU YOU ALL..

  20. Aw where is the scriture at “the evidence of speaking in other tounges”? I looked in my Strongs and never found such scripture.Please give me the Book,chapter and verse.
    Mishel keep your faith God always takes care of his own.

  21. I wanted to thank you for this fantastic read!! I definitely loved every
    little bit of it. I have got you book-marked to
    look at new things you post…

  22. the reason i am here is because ive been watching sonlife and something just didnt sit right, lot is said about francis thats funny to because when i first listened to her i thought wow she is nasty, after she ridiculed a caller, i can see how people can be attracted to this theres no doubt j swaggett is a fine musician nice voice , but if you look long enough even the untrained eye can see all is not what it seems.

  23. I went to JSBC in the same year as the 1988 scandal. I have seen some of the things stated.
    However, I have only caught a few recent teachings. I really don’t see much difference. I know whom I have believed in and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I commited against that day.People, we have got to keep our eyes on the Lord. He is the author and finisher of our faith. Over the last 30 years I have seen a lot of foolish : ” holy laughter”, rolling on the floor, greed , lust, gold dust,” being drunk in the spirit”, etc. Only the truth will remain. All the other “stuff” will burn in the refiners fire on the day we see Christ face to face. I have long ago stopped looking to ” men of God” and looked only to Him. Be a Godchaser not a man chaser. All have sinned.

  24. There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. This type of Christianity is why the world will not receive Christ. I will never send another dollar to TV evangelists. I will however send to local churches, and support widows and orphans. The anointing has lifted from this ministry, but it has not lifted from the word of God, so people may still be blessed under their teaching, but God will not be mocked, what they have sown, they will reap.

  25. James Morrow says:

    I’m a christian man from Australia. I know no one in this forum, to the best of my knowledge. When saved – April 1994 – I fell pell mell into the deception of the Word/Faith movement. For several years I went along with the mantras and jingoism associated with that heresy and would have stayed there and lost my family/fortune/sanity like so many other souls have over time had it not been for my saviour, Jesus Christ the righteous, leading me to listen to a man by the name of Jimmy Swaggart. I was angered at first by his assertions about Word/Faith heresy however he had a fire and foundation of scripture that I craved since salvation so I continued to listen. Anytime someone told me that Jimmy was a charlatan only emboldened me to listen more to Jimmy, and less to the knockers. Within a couple of years, around the year 2000, I had hundreds of sermons including tapes and LP records , vitually all Jimmy’s teaching series with some on longplay LP from the mid-seventies and all but a handful of the sixty odd LP albums that he had produced. Including the Shiloh label. I was, and still today, not ashamed to declared what a blessing Jimmy Swaggart had been to me. I knew more than anyone of my contempories about Jimmy Swaggart and his ministry and when you consider that I rubbed shoulders with numbers who had hosted Jimmy at their churches and later Donnie Swaggart as well, that says something. JSM Ministries phone number in Australia was dialled often! I kept reading in the word however of God’s ministers behaving a certain way, and I wasn’t seeing this from the Swaggarts. It is amazing what a believer can pick up on video tape. Little things. A thumbs up to someone out of view after they had delivered an interpretation to tongues. Not centre screen and almost unseeable. A rewind button is a useful tool. Stories about meeting Jesus. So fantastical it puts Pauls humble discertation in the “unimportant” category. All the while I was receiving criticism from all those around me. I would often say that Jesus was alone on the cross so I guess are God’s true ministers, but deep down I was disturbed by the claims. When any believer compares the humility of Christ and the words of Jimmy Swaggart they should be dumbfounded. My cleansing of the Swaggart stain off my soul began when I read an article about JSM being sued by the printers of the Dake Anotated Bible. I thought that would be easy to answer as I own a Dake. I whipped it out incensed at this accusation. I thought if there was a problem it was a minor one with not a lot of copying at all. These commentaries are no longer in print and have been totally rewritten. Out came the Dake. Down went my jaw! On almost every single page, and I checked ramdomly through several hundred pages and true enough, Swaggart and copied virtually word for word great swathes of Dake’s material. Those commentaries, at $76.00 a piece, were torn and tossed! I had 11 of which all but 4 were given as a blessing to a sister only weeks before. I was incensed however was not yet fully convinced Jimmy Swaggart was a conman. As the years progressed I continued to listen to their radio over the internet and was blessed however I was formulating my own ideas on doctrine and must say I was never convinced about his doctrinal bent since adopting “The Revelation of the Cross”. I won’t get into it now however the emphasis is that Jimmy Swaggart is the only one to have it – in the world! Really!!!! I can only be saved through Jimmy Swaggart Ministries then! If you’ve listened to him for any length of time, you would have heard the same. The back of the camel was brocken so to say when I heard one of their telethons. Swaggart himself made the claim that it cost $37.00 on average an hour per translator station to go to air. I thought, ” Wow. That’s interesting. So I worked out that each translator, on average cost 24( hours in a day) X $37.00 an hour to run per day. They at that point had over 60 translators so that works out a lot. Per day! Now fimes that by 30 days in a month and 365 days for a year and that’s many times more than the figure they gave. I did my sums and emailed the ministry in the US to alert them of their error. I even said something like, ” an enemy would use this error to hurt the ministry on the internet. Good thing a friend discovered it.” Well I used to watch the morning Sunday service over the net on Monday morning when it was re-run. To my surprise Francis got up and castigated someone on the internet who has spent more time worrying about ministry finances by calculating daily, weekly, monthly, yearly expenses from imaginary figures or some such. I started to think that someone had done what I warned about, and tried to hurt the minstry. Then twenty minutes or so later Jimmy got up and did it again but he essentially stated a few things I stated in the email. Their attack was on me! I’m so honoured! I was questioning much at that point but that was God answering a number of prayers I had prayed all in one. My point of this my long winded response was to show how God used one man extract another man caught in a lie ( thing how God used Nebuchadnezzer to save the nation of Israel. Nebuchadnezzer was not a believer). Then when that man was mature enough, he spoke in numbers of ways to show him heresy directly!

    • Thank you for your story. From what I have observed, they troll for those who have been fed-up with Word of Faith and Dominionism, then offer them something that will, in the end, ensnare them in error that is just as deadly.

  26. James Morrow says:

    That is interesting. Around 2002 I really started to separate from any association from the Swaggart ministries and it’s amazing how long suffering the Lord really is. They even cut off the people running the ministry in Australia who had faithfully and dutifully served “the cause” and who had forgone wages even using money earnt from secular chef work to prop up their holy grail – The Telecast. God help us. When it was time to consolidate all ministry functions (profits) to the US. They cut and ran. I had some dealings through the South African set up also. A man by the name of Simon Bartholemew Locke was running it then. I don’t know about now. I ordered many old preaching video tapes from him. I wired a little over $1000 in Australian currency to him through Western Union for about 90 video tapes. I recieved about half that amount some months later and am still waiting ten years on. Several follow-ups by me availed nothing so of course I realised that he was keeping my money. I think I was spending about a half an hour each call and I made three calls. That’s about $100 back then. Pre skype obviously. I know so much about the machinations of the ministry that it’s not funny. It’s amazing how much people will say when they feel free to say it. Donnie’s first divorce. His and Jimmy’s argument with Jennifer Swaggart, before she and Debbie left. The re-marriage of Donnie. I stopped talking to various people in the know because at the time I wished to pray for the Swaggarts and these others were using me as a Father Confessor! I haven’t talked to them since. I thought if you are such a close associate of these people and you tell me, a nobody not close at all, then what spirit are you of! Anyway. I could say more but why bother. Thanks again. James.

  27. The accusations are unsubstantiated!! It appears to me that you all are on a fault finding mission. The bigger question is how are you preaching the Gospel? Are you living a life that glorifies God? Why don’t you spend your time speaking against evolution, homosexuality, abortion and secular humanism in the public school system?

    I am a former Bible College student and have been supporting the ministry for years. What you all don’t bring out is how JSM has stood against sin and preached the uncompromising Gospel for 30+ years. Do things go wrong at times? Sure they do. I’ve been around this country and its hard to find a good preacher. Most of them are too concerned about their 501K tax exempt status and won’t speak the truth.

    As I re-read the blog it just sounds like a bunch of cackling hens – I hope and pray you are doing something more with your life than whining about what JSM did wrong to you!

    • If you think these accusations are unsubstantiated then either you have not looked at the evidence, or you have chosen to turn a blind eye to it. I think it is self refuting that you call others out for speaking against the Swaggarts but then you turn around and do the exact same thing by speaking against myself and those who have attempted to expose them. I suppose you do not see the irony in this. If you are willing to keep listening despite documented proof of their continued PRACTICE of a lifestyle of unrighteousness then by all means keep listening. In terms of doing more with my life then whining what JSM did wrong to me- that is and never was the issue. However, I suppose it is easier to discredit the messenger than actually listen to what they might be trying to tell you. I understand. I also want to assure you, since you are obviously concerned with how I allocate my time, that this blog is an infinitesimal, and rather unimportant fraction of what I do. It is always amusing to me when people claim I spend ALL my time on calling out the Swaggarts. I only even look at this blog one or two times a month and the Swaggarts are only a small part of the overall content. So with all due respect, the only person whining here is you.

  28. I was trying to find the JSM website and stumbled on this blog by accident. Thank you Mishel for a place to write my opinion, because i am an old man who cares for a disabled wife and raising a teenage granddaughter, and no one else listens to me. I am not affiliated with JSM in any way (not even Pentecostal) – just love the praise and gospel music on SBN very much and I love Jesus. My life is difficult as I am self employed, getting old and have many burdens. I have found joy and peace on SBN and have heard noting but truth as I understand the Bible.

    I do not feel a spirit of peace, but a spirit of contention on this blog, and feel compelled to write because I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ, including those who may disagree on nuances of doctrine and workplace expectations. It took me many years of stumbling and child raising, and mistakes made, to understand the importance of forgiveness. It is truly the catalyst for a fee and loving spirit because we all so desperately need it, and what we extend to others will be a shadow of the perfect forgiveness we receive from the King who died for us.

    I believe it to be wrong to criticize past scandals, divorces, and other issues that have occurred years ago, and have been repented of by the Swaggart family. They are flesh and blood just as we are, and we are not their judge. I believe all of the complaining about employee issues and how the Swaggarts run their business, is simply that – their business. They are running multiple enterprises – a world class music ministry and evangelistic outreach. Do I agree with everything – of course not. Some of the comments from disgruntled employees are unbelievable. Just leave and get another job if you are not a team player. We are to serve our masters with humility and dignity – not backbiting. I served under some difficult employers in my profession and did my work to their standards and expectations. I left the offices of some other employers due to insurmountable circumstances. All small companies and family owned businesses are mini-dictatorships and employees never have any sense of the weight of responsibility at the helm unless they have been in those shoes. Often the root of the critical spirit is low self esteem or even much worse – jealosy.

    I hope and pray everyone will resolve their differences in a scriptural manner with their brothers and sisters, and approach the communion table with a free and clear spirit of forgiveness. Forgiveness is awesome – out of this world!

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